To ask those in food service to please take requests for decaf seriously?

[EveryDayImHustlin]

Ok before anyone says it, I know I could just not drink tea/coffee at all, and most of the time I don’t, but I love the taste and occasionally I really fancy a cup. And decaf exists for a reason right?

I’ve never been able to handle caffeine and it started giving me terrible headaches and migraines in my early twenties, so I gave it up for good. I can handle the small amounts in chocolate but have to be careful not to have too much (really dark chocolate especially can trigger something if I have more than a square or two) but tea/coffee/coke/Red Bull etc are completely out.

Anyway, on several occasions recently I’ve found myself ordering a decaf tea or coffee, triple checking with the person serving that it’s definitely decaf (usually getting an eye roll for doing so) and then winding up with a thumping headache an hour later anyway.

I was especially annoyed today because we ordered from a place that’s meant to be particularly good on allergens etc, and yet my ‘decaf’ coffee definitely wasn’t.

If you work in any kind of food service, AIBU to ask that you actually give someone decaf if they ask for it?!

EarlyBird39 maybe you should try RTFT before posting? OP has already clarified loads that she CAN handle decaf coffee

And traditional English tea has caffeine in it

I don't understand why people still aren't getting it!

Caffeine issues can often be dose dependent. For me, I can tolerate small amounts, sometimes even a cup of tea if it's not going to be strong, but the more I have, the more unwell I feel. I get tachycardia and palpitations - in the past enough to hospitalize me for a few days. It's horrible.

So I minimize my exposure to it. If somewhere sells decaffeinated beverages then as long as that's what I get, I know I'll be fine.

I can't taste if something has caffeine in it, but I'll know in a few minutes if it has too much for me. I can tell the difference between decaf coffee and normal coffee because decaf coffee is a little bit shit in comparison. Decaf tea, unless it's yorkshire tea, or some really nice tea leaves I've found, tends to taste very shit, so I avoid that in cafes usually.

Trust me, I can drink decaf. I do wish people would stop doubting my knowledge of my own body sad I’m not the only one here who has said they can drink decaf with no problem but can’t tolerate the real stuff.

Do you feel that way when someone serving you points that out? I ask because I thought about how I served people who tell me they have an allergy to a certain food or ingredients and I will always point out that the item you're asking for still contains trace amounts of the allergen if it does. So in your case if you asked me for decaff coffee, because you have an allergy, I'd respond that decaff does contain caffeine, because it does. I have no way of knowing if one tiny particle can cause you major problems, or if you can tolerate the smaller quantities in decaff. I'd be quite annoyed to get a stroppy response in that scenario tbh, because I'm actually trying to give you information you might not know, to prevent a reaction. I've had it before where someone has ordered gf food, and the table has ordered a side of chips, at the time the gf fryer was out of action and we couldn't serve gf chips until it was fixed, I told the customer and got told off for telling her what she could tolerate, because the trace amounts from the fryer don't affect her like bread etc- um you've just told me you're gf, I'm not a mind reader, I'm warning you the chips aren't gf!

I have no way of knowing if one tiny particle can cause you major problems, or if you can tolerate the smaller quantities in decaff. I'd be quite annoyed to get a stroppy response in that scenario tbh, because I'm actually trying to give you information you might not know, to prevent a reaction.

I covered this earlier and I’ve already said that this is why I would never say I have a caffeine ‘allergy’ because I don’t, and I know I can tolerate the small amounts in decaf, so I would really rather just be able to say ‘decaf please’ and get decaf! Rather than having to say ‘decaf please, and please make sure it is actually decaf, because while I can tolerate the small amounts of caffeine that remain after the decaffeination process a cup of regular coffee will give me a migraine, thank you’.

I know people are determined to make me sound like a horrible customer but I have literally never been ‘stroppy’ with a person serving me in my life.

IME this is the problem with everyone becoming ridiculously picky in their ordering and claiming they have allergies when really they just don’t want something. I notice much more complacency these days and rarely eat out any more because of that (anaphylaxis to some nuts and seeds)

I am really curious now.

Those who think people like me shouldn’t be ordering decaf, who then do you think decaf is for?

I’m guessing you think it’s for regular coffee drinkers who don’t want much caffeine after 4pm, let’s say.

So then let’s say you go into a coffee shop at 5pm and ask for decaf because you’ve got an early start tomorrow and you really need to sleep. But at midnight you find yourself lying in bed wide awake and buzzing and you realise that you were given regular coffee.

Do you feel entitled to feel a little pissed off about that? Or do you just think ‘oh well I knew the risks and I shouldn’t have had a coffee if I didn’t want to be up all night?’

I find it so bizarre that so many people seem to think you shouldn’t ask for decaf unless you’re prepared to live with the consequences of drinking non-decaf. Should my gluten-intolerant friend also never ask for gluten free bread in case someone accidentally gives her the normal stuff?

We have loads of intolerances in the family and often get restaurants making mistakes. My DS is very lactose intolerant so we have to be really careful ordering things we absolutely know are fine. They will make mistakes and it's not worth the risk. Alternatively bring your own tea bags and ask them to use them. I always let them know he is likely to vomit if they make a mistake that often works.

@EveryDayImHustlin

My question was in response to you saying that people question your knowledge on what you can/can't tolerate with regards to caffeine and regular/decaff tea and coffee (and a lot of that has gone on on this thread) and pointing out that a server may tell you decaff isn't caffeine free and the reasons why from my pov as someone who serves people drinks and food. I wouldn't be questioning what you can/can't tolerate, I'm trying to give you some information that I can't guarantee that the allergen isn't present - but sometimes the customer takes it that I'm lecturing them on their own allergy and that's really frustrating.
Fwiw in my previous post I said YANBU to want what you've ordered, and I stand by that. Regardless of the reasons for wanting it, and that society as a whole as well as the people serving need to start taking this kind of thing seriously because it can literally be life threatening.
And really, in order to ensure safety and no cross contamination, if you do have an allergy, you should inform someone serving you (in response to your friend getting a 'mini lecture' in one pp) because they can then take the precautions needed to prevent any cross contamination and make sure you're informed. It picks up mistakes like those cakes not having a nut allergy warning on them - yes it's not good they didn't have the warning, but surely it's better to check by telling them you have a nut allergy? They can then tell you what is and isn't safe. And anyone that gives you attitude for that is quite frankly in the wrong job, because it's so, so important.
I'm not trying to make you out as a bad customer, I think you should get what you ask for, and agree that if you're in doubt - check. I have no problems with someone checking with me if I've made a drink that's slightly different from the norm. I expect it tbh, because I'm not infallible and I might have made a genuine mistake, I'd rather someone check than I make them ill! I realise though that possibly, I'm in the minority here!
Sorry if I did offend, there was no intention to.

But at midnight you find yourself lying in bed wide awake and buzzing

Personally a coffee at 5 would not make me "buzzing" at midnight as i have a high tolerance for caffeine. Im a bit when people claim they go shakey and are buzzing 7 hours after one cup of coffee as i wonder if they are just suffering from a "mind over matter" effect.
I dont mean this at you OP. Your intolerance sounds horrible and i think its ridiculous people keep suggesting you dont know your own body.

And, it's also not that much harder to make a decaff where I work either, it's opening a packet rather than getting the beans from the grinder, in fact it's less mess tbh because the grounds are contained in the pod rather than all over the place like they are from the grinder. I'd rather make a decaff if I've just cleaned the coffee machine! 😁

Grumpymug if a server said to me ‘just checking you know that decaf might still have some caffeine in it?’ then I wouldn’t be offended at all, I’d be delighted that they were taking my request seriously so no worries there!

I’m only annoyed with all the total strangers here telling me that I shouldn’t drink decaf etc. because apparently they know better than me what I can tolerate. It’s quite maddening to say ‘AIBU to want decaf if I order decaf’ and have so many people telling me that it’s my fault for ‘taking the risk’ ordering coffee in the first place.

The point about my friend and the nuts was that they didn’t even apologise or admit a mistake, just said that it was up to her to check before ordering. In which case why mention any allergens on the menu at all? That seems like a recipe (no pun intended!) for disaster.

As with most Mumsnet threads this has descended into to splitting hairs now, but overall no one has really convinced me that IABU to ask serving staff to honour requests for decaf!

GreytExpectations I didn’t answer your post about tasting the caffeine. Maybe it’s not so much the caffeine itself but more that decaf coffee seems to be a bit weaker in taste and maybe just not quite so good quality?

After drinking decaf for so long I’ve found that if someone gives me a particularly delicious, rich and intense-smelling cup of coffee then sadly it’s very likely that they’ve made a mistake and given me regular. Confirmed by the few times that my partner and I have accidentally drink from each other’s cups. You can just tell!

EveryDayImHustlin that makes sense i suppose. I wouldnt know as never have decaff. I tend to have almond milk in lattes though just because i like it and have never not been given what I orderesd. Same goes with skim milk. I think its a bit judgmental for those pp to moan about people who orderee something when they dont have an allergy. Why does that matter? If its offered on a menu than nothing wrong with ordering it!

The point about my friend and the nuts was that they didn’t even apologise or admit a mistake, just said that it was up to her to check before ordering. In which case why mention any allergens on the menu at all? That seems like a recipe (no pun intended!) for disaster.
On our menu we state that certain things can be gf, or contain nuts for example, but still say you should inform staff of any allergies or intolerance. That's because of the cross contamination risk mainly. If someone ordered a dessert that was nut free, and didn't say they were an allergy sufferer, it could have been stored near, or prepared in the same area as nuts, so there's a risk. Once informed we can take steps to ensure that food is prepared well away from anywhere that it may get contaminated. That's why you should say, even if something doesn't contain nuts (just an example) it may have been near something that does, and staff not in the know can't take the extra precautions needed.

As with most Mumsnet threads this has descended into to splitting hairs now, but overall no one has really convinced me that IABU to ask serving staff to honour requests for decaf!
I agree that I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for and get decaff where it's offered, and I don't understand the attitude that making a decaff is harder, or a faff. If you order decaff then regardless of why, that's what you should get.

"whacked with a huge fine, closed down or both"

What would be the punishment mechanism? Genuine question. Mis-Advertising, maybe?

I'd start with Trading Standards.

Granted, nobody with a severe allergy to caffeine (is there such a thing? I'm guessing probably) or, say, a Mormon, whose religious beliefs dictate no caffeine, would be ordering Decaff, as it's obviously much less caffeine rather than no caffeine at all.

Considering how seriously pubs who understate the ABV of their beers are punished; and it's not just the risk of drink-driving as punishments are also meted out for the opposite - if they don't serve a full pint (within acceptable tolerances), without clearly offering a top-up once the head has subsided.

'Somebody we know, who ran a pub, was severely punished for selling out-of-date food. When we heard, we assumed it must have been meat or dairy or similar - but it turned out it was just packets of crisps. Not defending them for that, but it's hardly a public health risk in the same way.

Even without involving the authorities, once word gets out that a cafe deliberately doesn't bother to serve what they claim and pass-off different products, customer confidence and trade is likely to severely drop off anyway, I'd have thought.

Yeah decaf tastes more metallic than full fat. Smells a bit different too, but still smells like coffee. All this talk of coffee means I am craving one now. (Shakes fist in menacing way)

Somebody we know, who ran a pub, was severely punished for selling out-of-date food. When we heard, we assumed it must have been meat or dairy or similar - but it turned out it was just packets of crisps. Not defending them for that, but it's hardly a public health risk in the same way.

That's nonsense as crisps have best before dates on them and it isn't illegal to sell them past that date. Only use by dates can lead to action.

You are taking a risk.
That is factual statement not a judgement.
You're a grown up. You can take a risk. Your privilege.

If it makes you feel better taking the risk getting on a high horse, or thinking this thread can influence anything at all ever in the world... then knock yourself out. You're allowed to hope that.

I'm allowed to say it's an unrealistic hope.

“High horse” for having a bit of a moan about being served something that makes me ill, yeesht well if that isn’t a fitting conclusion to this AIBU thread then I don’t know what is. Thanks Mumsnet, don’t ever change!

It’s been fun, thanks all, but I don’t think there’s anything else left to say so that’s probably it from me.

OP is not unreasonable.

It could be also noted that some people don't have caffeine for religious reasons.

I can't drink caffeine, it gives me tachycardia, so YANBU about ordering decaf as far as I'm concerned. But I'm surprised you've had so many problems getting it. I don't think I've ever been given caffeinated coffee carelessly (i.e. because they took the order but then couldn't be bothered to fulfil it) - only accidentally, e.g. mine and my partner's cups got swapped on the tray. I've never, ever had anyone roll their eyes at a request for decaf - why would they??

But I would know my coffee was caffeinated in error from the first sip, so tbh I feel YAB a bit U to post a whole thread about it if you can get to the third cup and still have to check the label to know you've been missold.

If it makes you feel better taking the risk getting on a high horse

How ridiculous!

It's not unreasonable to be served exactly what you asked for ffs!
It doesn't matter what it is if the premises state they serve x or y then that's what you should get. It's not up to staff to decide you dont need it or deserve it. Their job is to serve you what you asked for.

Op knows exactly what she can tolerate, nobody else gets to tell her she shouldn't enjoy a cup of decaf whenever she wants to. Its not their body not thier life.

Sometimes mn is even more ridiculous than usual why would any body think op is being unreasonable?

I don’t think yabu. It’s usually not difficult to give a customer what they ordered and if it is said people should give the reasons why especially when serving food and drink. No one should have to lie and claim an allergy to get what they ordered.

But I would know my coffee was caffeinated in error from the first sip, so tbh I feel YAB a bit U to post a whole thread about it if you can get to the third cup and still have to check the label to know you've been missold.

That scenario was that my partner ordered the decaf tea, I heard the waitress repeat it back to him, then I got a seat and he brought over the pot. I don’t drink Clipper decaf normally so I have no idea what it would usually taste like and the labels are blank so there was nothing to indicate that it was ‘real’ tea instead of decaf, other than to colour of the label, which I only thought to Google after I started feeling a bit shaky 10 minutes in.

I didn’t post a whole thread just about that one incident though, it was out of frustration that it had happened two weekends in a row and seems to be becoming a more common occurrence even though everyone is supposed to be more aware of dietary requirements etc. nowadays. I was fed up and wanted to hear anyone else felt the same way, is that not the point of AIBU?!