If a 7 year old child disclosed this to you...

[redredbrine]

AIBU for quick traffic

what would your immediate actions be?

• they are scared of their dad
• they don't want to go to their dads because he shouts
• their dad is aggressive and angry and breaks things when they do something wrong
• that they're sad that daddy broke up with his girlfriend because that means they have to be on their own with him
• that their dad pinned them down with his foot and wouldn't let them move even though they were upset
• that they are scared to talk to mummy about it because they don't want daddy to shout at mummy (they're not together)
• daddy breaks their toys when he's angry
• daddy uses swear works
• daddy says nasty things about mummy
• I wish I didn't have to go there

@redredbrine I think you've handled it perfectly. Hope things progress and this poor child can be protected now.

If there’s already a court order, I’d advise if mum wants to change or stop the contact, she should go straight back to the court and seek a variation - not simply withhold contact and be in breach of the order.

See what social services advise, but I’d think they may not assess if mother is prepared to act protectively. Important for you both to report, though, so it’s on record.

@FenellaVelour but I’d think they may not assess if mother is prepared to act protectively

What do you mean by this?

If the child’s mother is acting appropriately and protectively, for example taking steps to suspend the contact, social care won’t get involved.
Social workers will only act if there’s an ongoing risk.

But he's her father? Surely that means there's an ongoing risk unless he never sees her again?

Social care would expect it to be dealt with through the family courts.

The court system fails the children of abusive parents so badly upon separation.

Yes they do.

Well done, OP.

@FenallaVelour - What social care will do will really depend on the child’s mother. If she acts protectively, they won’t get involved and they’ll leave it for the family court to sort out, if dad goes there

From someone who has been badly stung by the family court, this approach sucks! I was advised by SS to return to court, but they won't confirm that in writing (thresholds NOT met in this case). It terrifies me that all the responsibility is on my shoulders and I could quite possibly be found guilty of parental alienation and lose my child to the abuser!

Very well done, OP. I hope that SS and family court will do right by this little girl. Perhaps by some miracle her father will not go to court about it, but alas I think that's unlikely.

@gottastopeatingchocolate I'm so sorry to read about your situation. How appalling it is. There is such a disconnect between these systems and none of it makes any sort of coherent or cohesive sense as a whole.

Eg on the one hand, coercive control is now a criminal offence, and teachers and doctors are being taught that a child is already being abused if they witness any form of abuse in the home; on the other hand, children who do experience this and worse are still being given court-ordered contact with the perpetrator after Cafcass shows understanding of abuse which is superficial at best -- or being given a token amount of supervised contact during which the perpetrator behaves himself for the necessary number of sessions until he gets granted unsupervised contact! Yet despite knowing all this I'm still shocked SS will not put their money where their mouth is in your case, rather than shuffling away from taking responsibility. The system has left you in an awful position.

Well done op. I hope they act in the little girls best interest and that she is kept safe.

Chocolate
That is frightening and disgusting. ☹️

So you ignored the majority of advice and told the mum first instead of reporting to NSPCC/SS and then telling her 🙄

Are you actually going to report it or are you just going to leave it to her?

‘Devastating not surprised’ tells me that the mother knew this was going on.

OP, you must absolutely not leave this to the mother but report to SS and the NSPCC. She may feel she is powerless to do anything and worry that it will reflect badly on her.

Child first.

In the safeguarding training I have done, we are advised to tell parents about anything we report unless we think it might put the child in immediate danger.
It is quite a stretch to think mum knowing about this disclosure will result in further harm to the child.
But yes, absolutely still a responsibility for OP to report. "DC told my friend who told me..." Won't hold as much weight. But OP has said she will so hopefully that's her part done.

@AnotherEmma I actually sought advice from one of my mother's friends who has been a social worker working with children for over 20 years. She said tell her mum and contact SS in morning. She gave me the number for the right team. I chose one trusted persons advice over people I've never met before on the Internet.

Yes I'm going to report it. Of course I am. I'm calling at 9 on the dot when they open.

Redredbrine- I work in early years and all my safeguarding training tells me to do the same. I would have also spoken to mom first.
I would urge you to make that call first thing to SS though, the more information they have from the more sources, the better, and quicker, they can act.

@CassianAndor her mum has had concerns for a long time. She showed me a long list. She is a caring mum who is devastated over this situation. She went through family court and begged cafcass to speak to her daughter but she was only 6 at the time and her ex very charming. They refused to speak to her. She was in tears when I spoke to her and she said she just doesn't know what to do any more as she's desperate not to send her daughter but terrified she will also be given a bollocking by the court. This man used to be abusive towards her and she told the court this, but they weren't interested. She's scared of him and is very lost and torn up.

If she feel her daughter is in danger and her daughter he confided in yourself surely it's in the child's best interests not to go to her dads...

There are a lot of women/men who lie about each other in the courts so I'm assuming it's difficult especially if he is a controlling manipulative man like it sounds...

my mom was married to an abusive man who belted her with a cast iron teApot stand... this was meant for me but luckily for me (13 at the time) she said to go through her first.... he did.
The are very convincing in there lies and believe there own lies too!

He got found guilty with a criminal record and a fine (he fractured her cheek bone)

They are bastards!

I hope to god she gets the help she needs with her little one. It is scary standing up to a bully but trust me... at the age of 23 I had post natal depression plus PTSD from childhood abuse.. she needs to be strong and do all she can to protect herself and her little one x

It will help her a lot if you contact social services. They will contact school and this can be monitored at least, hopefully some intervention may take place to support mum and daughter. Well done op.

I've reported it. They said brilliant that I confided in mum. They're contacting mum in next 48 hours and will contact me again in due course. Thanks for all the advice.

Cafcass spoke to my autistic son when he was 5, they were all for contact. I won full custody and ex husband isn’t allowed to contact me or ds at all. Does she have a solicitor?

Well done OP

She was in tears when I spoke to her and she said she just doesn't know what to do any more as she's desperate not to send her daughter but terrified she will also be given a bollocking by the court.

I know it means paying £220 but she could bring an application to vary the current order, she could also request an emergency hearing.
This would go down better with the courts than withholding contact and putting herself in breach of the order, where the onus would be put on her to justify why and she might get a tougher time from some judges.

They're not interested apparently. No bruising, no proof, nothing they can do. Told to report to school if concerned. Awful.

That's ridiculous. The mum could try to have a child psychologist talk to the girl and go back to court with the evidence.

Definitely report to the school as well in case they have something to add.