If a 7 year old child disclosed this to you...

[redredbrine]

AIBU for quick traffic

what would your immediate actions be?

• they are scared of their dad
• they don't want to go to their dads because he shouts
• their dad is aggressive and angry and breaks things when they do something wrong
• that they're sad that daddy broke up with his girlfriend because that means they have to be on their own with him
• that their dad pinned them down with his foot and wouldn't let them move even though they were upset
• that they are scared to talk to mummy about it because they don't want daddy to shout at mummy (they're not together)
• daddy breaks their toys when he's angry
• daddy uses swear works
• daddy says nasty things about mummy
• I wish I didn't have to go there

Cafcass not carcass. Yet carcass suits the service more, I think.

It's not "the law"

It most cases parents should be informed before a referral is made to social services unless doing so would put the child at further risk - and it is a bit of a stretch to imagine that informing the mother about an allegation made against her ex would put the child at risk

In any case, the OP is a member of the public not a professional so isn't bound by any safeguarding policy/guidelines anyway.

I don’t like the assumption that the mum may know and not care. I don’t agree with informing ss without speaking to the mum about it first.

Make notes of what she told you so you can remember it clearly. And yes, speak to the mum. Your other option is to contact SS but the mum will know it was you, presumably, so bear that in mind in your decision making.

@Annasgirl it's not the law for the OP, who is a friend of the family and casual babysitter for this child.

Such a dreadful situation would be made so much worse by the sudden descent, without warning of professionals into a situation that's already so difficult. A heads up is the least this mother should get.

I'm not going to stick around to argue about it because I won't change my mind so it's pointless. This woman was probably abused herself and now continues to be through her child. I am uncomfortable in this situation with the automatic assumption that the mother is also at fault and incapable of protecting her child when it is the FATHER who is perpetrating the abuse. Yet again a woman being punished for a mans actions. A gentle heads up is the least to expect.

FWIW my ex husband was an abusive alcoholic and I had to call the police when he attacked me in order to have him removed. The police gently told me at the time that a referral to SS would be made and it helped hugely to have had that warning. They also referred me to victim support . I was so traumatised that I dread to think what would have happened if SS suddenly dropped onto me from nowhere. In the end they saw us once and it was an immediate NFA as he was out of the home. So I have some experience of a similar situation. If the police are allowed to tell me that further action will be taken I am not sure why no one else is...

And if the Op speaks to the mum and she says the child is lying or exaggerating, what next? It's not up to the OP to make assumptions about the mother or to make a decision about what to do based on her replies. The child says she is being abused and that information must be reported to social services.

The courts will enforce contact with "D' F at any cost and it really is any cost!

That’s simply not true. While the courts start with an assumption that children need to have relationships with both parents, that is always based on whether it is safe (or can be made safe) for them to do so.

In this case, I’d tell the child’s mother and also inform social services through MASH (go direct, not through NSPCC). What social care will do will really depend on the child’s mother. If she acts protectively, they won’t get involved and they’ll leave it for the family court to sort out, if dad goes there.

Oh, and I should’ve said, that’s why I’d also report to MASH even if mother is horrified and acts to protect, because then there’s a professional’s record of what the child said to you, which would be disclosed to family court if the matter ended up there.

learning.nspcc.org.uk/safeguarding-child-protection/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign=UK_GO_S_B_GEN_Grant_Safenetwork_Child_Protection&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsuLWwKbB4gIViK3tCh3H3Af1EAAYASAAEgKeG_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Safeguarding is everybody's responsibility. Call the advice line for help.

Please google the LADO in your area (local authority designated officer). Call them and explain exactly what you have been told, they will advise you on what to do next. you may be this child’s only outlet so please do everything you can!

Please google the LADO in your area

The LADO won’t be involved with this. It’s their job role to investigate allegations against other professionals. It’s the MASH team you’ll need.

I would talk to the mum as there is no point - the court will just call the child a liar and say her mum has coached her. Perhaps call the school and make it clear it is her father that is the issue.

Schools are on holiday, that's why op is babysitting.
Are you ok op?

Fenella you are wrong about the courts. They don't often just leave it to the mother even when she acts protectively and they enforce contact in almost all circumstances.

Fenella you are wrong about the courts. They don't often just leave it to the mother even when she acts protectively and they enforce contact in almost all circumstances.

I said that social care wouldn’t get involved if mum was acting protectively.

The courts do not operate a “contact at all costs” approach, as some have suggested here. I’m all for appropriate transparency and discussion, and certainly the courts are not perfect, but Practice Direction 12J of the Family Procedure Rules provides guidance, and while rare to have no contact at all it does happen, or for indirect contact to be awarded (more commonly).

When DD told me concerning things about her friend, like you I was tempted to talk to the parents, as I knew them, and the allegations didn't implicate either of them directly. However instead I took immediate notes, verbatim, of the conversation, let DD talk, and didn't ask any questions beyond the simplest clarifications of who/what/when. I then went straight to the safeguarding lead at the school. They were on top of it immediately, and I was told by the lead that going straight to the safeguarding teams was indeed the correct course because one never knows what is really going on in a family, and it also saves innocent parents from appearing like they could be complicit, and allows specialists to question the children in the correct way.

These allegations were far less serious than the dreadful ones you outline. Please put aside any guilt for not telling the mother, and go straight to the safeguarding people mentioned by previous posters. Be ready to support the mother later, but wait for the investigation to start.

Flirtygirl is absolutely correct, domestic abuse still isn’t taken seriously by the court and despite practice direction 12J and the obvious failure of parenting with perpetrators of abuse, courts routinely order unsupervised contact with the abusive fathers. The mother is discredited and accused of being implacably hostile, evidence ignored, and abuse downplayed

Report. Report. Report. Telling the mother is not enough. The child may have already told the Monterey who has done nothing. Very likely the mother knows what her ex is like. You need to report this case to social services and urgently.

As a Mum whose son went through just a couple of the things mentioned here aged 7 with his Dad please speak to somebody, my sons Dad ended up taking his own life last year and my son has been slowly disclosing things about his time with his Dad in the last few months of his life ever since.

If you don’t feel comfortable approaching the Mum herself then please speak to the school or social services.

My sons Dad was not a bad man and didn’t ever hurt my son at all just in despair with his mental health and desperately needed outside intervention.

im in Scotland we have the named person system .
i would have no hessitstion in reporting to them

Poor girl. If possible try to write down word for word what she told you (even if you can remember little bits but don’t make words up if you can’t) then call your family services at your local authority. They should have a LADO (designated safeguarding officer) that can take this to the relevant services. Please report it.

Tell her mum and tell her you are also reporting it to social services. That child needs to be protected from her father by all means possible.

I've spoken to her mum who is devastated and also not surprised. She wanted cafcass to speak to her daughter when they were going through court but they refused. She's reporting to SS and so am I. We'll see what happens. Thanks for all the advice.

Get your report in first.

It will be painted as the mother making it up - you reporting it will give it more weight.

Social services