To ask when children should use sex assigned toilets?

[newjobnerves]

I have 2 sons, we were at the cinema today and the 3 of us went to the toilet. They're 8 and 5. Today was the first day I felt uncomfortable with him being in the female toilets, I've never even thought for a second about it before, but it was a small toilet and there was a queue and he was stood next to a smaller girl and I realised how big and out of place he looked! I ended up sending him into the men's so he didn't have to queue and my DH was waiting outside (he didn't need to go otherwise they usually go with him)

Anyway this is a rather convoluted (and lighthearted!) thread asking when do you think girls and boys should use the "correct" toilets? I'm not a helicopter parent by any stretch but I do get a bit a nervous at the thought of him being out of sight if DH isn't with us. We are swimming tomorrow, DH is working and I believe 8 is the age at our local swimming pool.

Ds is nearly 8 but I won't be sending him into the mens toilets on his own. I don't really care if I get looks. It's not as if I'm asking women/girls to go to the toilet in front of him, there are lockable doors!

When did washing hands in front of a child become so awful?

Yeah maybe it is because some children start puberty that early. These rules are still not properly taking into account the safety of young children IMO So I still think it’s ridiculous and will use my own judgement rather than some semi arbitrary cut off. And FWIW my husband works in CID and when I asked him about this he was of the opinion that 11/12 would be a better cut off if you make this decision on the basis of child protection rather than the potential for embarrassment.

No they’re not at risk of having to deal with a fire/burglary alone - but they are at risk of being sexually assaulted and I wouldn’t expect an 8 year old to be able to deal with that in their own!

I say 8, as that’s when I let ds’s go by themselves.

But I remember when ds2 was a baby in a sling, so ds1 had to be 6. We were going into the ladies, as dp was waiting outside holding ds2. There was a man there with a little girl looking worried. I asked if everything was ok, and he said it was the first time he’d taken his dd out like this himself, and she needed the toilet but would not go into the men’s as it scared her, with the urinals and men stood there. I suggested the disabled toilet, but it was locked. So last thing I could think of, was to offer to take her in the ladies with me. Which is what we did (and typically it wasn’t a wee it was a poo, that took a long time). But we came out and dad was talking to my dp, and dad thanked me, and said ‘I didn’t realise something so normal could be so difficult’.

It really made me think, because with boys, I don’t think many women would raise an eyebrow to them going in the ladies. But men could feel uncomfortable having little girls come in, especially when they are using a urinal, and also how ‘scary’ it could be for little girls.

Having boys I never experienced that, but it certainly opened my eyes to the struggles that fathers could face.

My two girls go together to the ladies if they're out without me with DH. I don't have as many concerns that they could be assaulted or able to ask for help if there's a problem. They're 9 and 11, and pretty sensible.

My son is 7, he will come in with me for at least another year. It will then depend on location - if it's questioned we'll use the disabled or family loo. He has ADHD and is not at all sensible, he can toilet himself but will not necessarily behave if he's on his own.

Re privacy and dignity, as long as there is a private, locked cubicle and adult supervision, I don't get the problem. I wouldn't be happy with an unattended child of any age using the opposite sex toilets. Mainly because they'll be putting themselves in a vulnerable situation.

My DS has used the men's toilets at football matches with his Dad and has had to witness drunken arguements and fights in the past, which is why he comes in the Ladies with me.

I don't go in the men's for the same reason and have also been told by stewards that I am not allowed. Most of the men I know don't really want to have their penis out at a urinal, with women around.

The ladies have cubicles, so you are very, very unlikely to see my sons penis and he won't see your vagina.

He uses the men's toilets everywhere else we go.

It's all about assessing the risk. We are both at risk in the men's at some football matches, but we are both not at risk in the ladies and neither are the other women at risk due to a 13 year old boy being in the Ladies.

It's pretty common at football matches for this scenario to happen.

I fully expect him to get more confident in the next year at going in the men's at matches, but not last season.

I imagine those that have an issue with it have never been to a game.

@SnowyAlpsandPeaks I would argue that the dad had created the problem by never having taken his daughter out solo until the age of 6. My DH was taking DD out and changing her nappy from babyhood.

I must admit I really detest and judge people who arbitrarily tell a mother her child is too old to be going in to the ladies with them. Haven't we honestly cottoned onto invisible disabilities. There isn't always a disabled toilet that can be used.

Ds1 is not neurotypical and is going through diagnosis currently. There is absolutely no way he can use the mens alone at 6 . Also my professional career has clearly taught me that toilet assaults whilst I'm not suggesting are everyday are nowhere near as uncommon as people think.

I had a response form a woman about a year ago in a toilet who wittered on at me in a smug entitled tone about her right to female safe space.

I questioned why my ds safety (after briefly explaining) came second to her comfort and if she was actually suggesting my at the time 5 year old was a genuine threat to her. This is why I experience absolute disgust at those who maintain innate predatory behaviour in males. It resulted for me in a grown adult woman in her thirties (I estimate but could well be wrong ) genuinely claiming her comfort was far more important than a 5 year olds safety.

Of course it's unacceptable for children to look under cubicles etc...frankly that's just rubbish parenting .

I've said before I'm a very good example of a strong feminist but some have misconstrued their right to safety as entitlement to have the world revolve around them.

Frankly until my ds1 is safe to use men's on his own , and if there is no disabled available for some reason then he will come in with me. He is taught very clearly about respecting privacy through his behaviour and anyone who has a concern is very welcome to debate this with me , hopefully it will make them consider why they insist on being seen as needing to be protected when they claim equality.

Equality is not a grown woman making a child feel uncomfortable and possibly unsafe because of their own agenda.

@Attache no the little girl was 3, my dc was 6. But yes I’m totally with you, my dp was taking ds out when he was weeks old. But you don’t know other families set up. Maybe they always went as a family (one of my friends done this, asked one day how I managed to do the food shop on my own with the children🤔as she only ever done it with her dp lol). However we did find some places when ds was in nappies where every changing station was in a ladies toilet. Fine for when I was there, not so fine for when dp was on his own. That was infuriating I must admit.

Probably from about 8/9. However, it would be entirely location dependent. Restaurant - fine. Public toilet in a park - I'd take them in with me.

@Snowy ah yes sorry about the ages.

My DH has always taking the attitude he needs to JFDI and complain after if he had difficulties. This is how we move on from mothers being default parents. And things have improved a lot in the decade or so that we've been out and about with babies / toddlers / children with additional needs.

My 13 year old uses the men's loos at football matches fine and has done since he was 9. He goes just before half time whistle when it's quieter. No issues at all. He says he goes in the cubicle as it's less packed lol

DS (8) and DS (6). I'm taking it very much on a case by case basis at present.

We are investigating SNs for DS1. So far dyspraxia has been identifed and it does affect his independence for issues such as toileting. He still needs reminding to lock doors, lift seats, wipe, flush, wash hands as he struggles with routines. I can't vouch for the condition he leaves the men's in but he is begining to use them in smaller places with easily supervised exits. He often isn't tall enough for urinals and taps can still be a reach or stiff. Busy areas such as shopping areas, services no way am I leaving him unsupervised while I get delayed in the inevitably longer queue in the Ladies. He is small and looks young for his age so would look far more out of place unsupervised in public than accompanied by his mum in a Ladies toilet.

I recently used disabled showers for him on a scout camp. I found him on the site in a state of sensory overload and he needed a big dose of TLC and a good clean up to restore him to a functional state. He was not in a condition to manage independently in the boys' area, so I took him to the disabled off the girls' entrance as it seemed unreasonable to escort him through brownies/guides/ female scouts. I felt pretty guilty when the door handle was rattled at some point, but dyspraxia was the reason why he needed support from his (opposite sex) parent at that moment.

DS2 (6) still isn't over his phobia of hand dryers that leave him stuck with his hands over his ears and crying.