To want baby to have my surname too

[Sashadublin]

I'm due my first baby mid- June. DH and I very excited. When we got married I kept my name, for a few reasons, including that I'm an only child with quite an unusual surname and it would effectively end with me if I didn't. No issue from DH at the time. We had discussed and agreed that baby would have both my and his surname. They work well together. Not going to hyphenate it, but have the two and when the child is older if she just wants to use DH's surname, that's fine. Realistically happy for my name to at least be on the child's birth cert, but school, everyday usage can just be DH's . However DH recently had conversation with his sister who said this was a terrible idea. If my name was in the baby's surname on the cert for ever more she would have to have both. Asked a solicitor who specialises in family law and he said that was absolute nonsense, and practical for passports etc.I told DH I would compromise and just have my name on the birth cert but for everything else the baby can go by his surname only. He said no there can't be any compromise, the baby simply can't have my surname as well as his on the birth cert; just his. I'm absolutely stunned. Their family has 3 sons, they already have 4 grandchildren with that surname. It's just me in my family. His family are very unhappy about my wish apparently. I just don't get it, I'm hardly demanding we only use my surname for the baby. Exhausted and surprised at my DH. He says it's just a name and I'm being silly

We went with middle name for one of our surnames too. I think it's quite helpful for it to be on passports to show you're all the same family when going through passport control.

Feminism does not mean abruptly disagree with My choice to change my name to my husbands. It’s my choice- yes some don’t have to change their name which is fine- my right as a women is to be able to change my name to my husbands. I choose to do this freely and don’t need feminists shooting people down for this. I am equal to my husband- name or no name.

Your SIL sounds deranged @SashaDublin and I’d be very pissed off in your situation.

I kept my name in marriage, we have 2 DC (boy and girl) their names are FirstName SecondName MySurname DH’sSurname (really rolls off the tongue)

DC go by DH’s surname but it was important to me that my name was included, both for practical reasons e.g. travel, and you know, also because they’re my fucking kids and I did all the hard physical work to get them here so I don’t think it’s unreasonable.

But so what Reenascreena? Last time I looked this was a free country and people can make choices you don’t agree with and don’t need to explain themselves to the likes of you.

Agreed @LolaSmiles

“So what we get is the sort of feminism where some women decide what is best for women and then judge any woman who disagrees? ”
No. There are many choices women can make that are not feminist. That doesn’t mean that the woman making the decision is not a feminist- it means that on this occasion she has made a non feminist decision. For example, if she decides to perpetuate a tradition that is based on patriarchal misogynist values.

Incidentally are you sure that all the women you know who chose to keep their own name on marriage are now devoting themselves to picking up after their men? It sounds a little unlikely but there you go.

WoWsers16
I agree with you. It's ludicrous to look at a relationship of equals think 'oh no, she changed her name definitely betraying the female cause'.

We looked at hyphenating and it sounds stupid. I decided I'd keep my name. DH didn't care either way. I informed him of my decision to change later on.

feminism is about supporting women to makes choices that are right for women.
This 100%. I hate the attitude that it's ok to do whatever you want then saying feminism should support you because you are a woman. Bullshit. It is tradition to take your husband's name because men owned their wives. Everyone knows this. You are not doing anything special by going along with that because it suits your circumstances, you are simply contributing to something that is intrinsically wrong. Because it's so commonplace, women who are vulnerable or lack confidence will be railroaded into changing their name because the majority still do it. Feminism is trying to help these women, other women not giving a shit is part of the problem.
Op, please make sure your name is included, this is your child too.

Deadringer
If anyone is railroaded into changing their name then that's out of order.
If a woman looks at the options and decides that's right for her then that's her choice.

It's a bit like staying at home with kids. If a woman feels she has to be the one to give up work, if her DP expects her to take days off to do poorly childcare, if it's expected that the woman will give up her pension and earning potential to facilitate her partner because it's been drilled into her for years that her career is less important then staying at home is absolutely a situation that has been pushed on her. If a woman is silly enough (as we see on here a lot) to give her career up & stay home for 5 years living in a house that she isn't on the deeds for, no marriage etc then she's being misguided or has been pushed into that situation.
But if a woman says 'on balance, I've got enough legal protrction, can keep my hand in, have good maternity pay, I've got access to DH pension / DH is going to pay into my pension and what's best for our situation is I work 2 days a week' then that's not for other women to judge and say it's not feminist.

There has to come a point where we trust women to make the decision that is best for them.

The sister's main objection to the use of 2 surnames was that she said it's a sign of divorced or separated parents, and so the child has subsequently been given both names.

Annnnd the answer to this is still - But your objections have about as much significance to this issue as a bag of kitten piss. So fuck off, before I decide to tell you what I think your kids should be named.

It is my Choice that I changed my name- I wasn’t Rail roaded into anything- I don’t need any help from ‘feminists’ thank you- especially ones that are blind to views of women who dare disagree with them.
Maybe some women don’t ‘give a shit’ because actually some things feminists get het up about are rediculous- my babies have my name - because it is now my name!

Feminism does not mean abruptly disagree with My choice to change my name to my husbands.

Not specifically talking about changing your surname but feminism can certainly mean abruptly disagreeing with something a woman does regardless of whether they argue that it is her choice. Choices are rarely made in a vaccum and may certainly be influenced by paternal,misogynist attitudes that seek to reduce equality between the sexes. Even if it is a genuine choice, if that choice makes it harder for other women to achieve equality, then again feminists will disagree with your choice.

I just don't get this.. you're being just as 'old fashioned' and unreasonable as he is. It's wrong for either mother or father to insist on this..it should be a fair compromise. The mother does tend to have the upper hand on the law but it would also be wrong to push your rights of a mum just to spite the patriarchy.

I meant as well as his.........he is saying her name won't be going on the birth cert and I was saying tell him it is and that's the end of it?

I kept my name in marriage, we have 2 DC (boy and girl) their names are FirstName SecondName MySurname DH’sSurname (really rolls off the tongue)

DC go by DH’s surname but it was important to me that my name was included, both for practical reasons e.g. travel, and you know, also because they’re my fucking kids and I did all the hard physical work to get them here so I don’t think it’s unreasonable.

Same here. I am called Mrs DH by school/the doctors etc. I don’t like it but let it go. It doesn’t piss me off like MIL’s birthday cards to Mrs DH.

In the event of a disagreement, I’d say the mother gets the casting vote and/or the person who is likely to do all the child admin/be primary carer gets the casting vote.

Yeah exactly @Testing

Also just to add in my 2c changing your name when you get married is 100% not a feminist choice. WTAF.

I’d consider myself a feminist but I’m not exactly the Ur-Feminist, I was still happy to accept a diamond ring when I got engaged which is Very Not Feminist. On the logic of some posters here it was a feminist choice because it was one I made and I have a vagina? 🤯

Oh for heavens sake, what a ridiculous thing to cause all this strife! My dads family are by no means social rebels or pioneers but for generations (going back to the early 19th century at least) they have all carried their mothers maiden name as their middle name. What on earth is the drama all about?
I wish you luck dealing with this fuckwittery OP, and hope you stand your ground. Why on earth anyone thinks they have more say than you what to name the human which is currently physically a part of you - mind boggling.

“If a woman looks at the options and decides that's right for her then that's her choice.“
Of course it’s her choice. It’s just not a feminist choice.

Even if it is a genuine choice, if that choice makes it harder for other women to achieve equality, then again feminists will disagree with your choice.
So a woman who chooses to stay at home or go part time for 2 years having ensured she is properly financially sorted, is going to do a professionally accredited course whilst off and can pick her career back up again shouldn't do that because some feminists will disagree with her choice as another woman who's staying at home for 5 years having multiple babies with their DP and no legal protection might not be able to tell the difference in the two situations?

DH and I plan on splitting the maternity leave year in a way that's convenient in order to maximise our time off and have some time together. Maybe we shouldn't because if I make a decision based on my occupational pay and DH's occupational pay, that's wrong. I should be off as little as possible so not to suggest to any other woman what she does with her maternity leave.

Of course choices aren't made in a vacuum, but taking the view that feminist should judge and disagree with choices made in different situations for the benefit of people not in that situation seems silly to me.

“they have all carried their mothers maiden name as their middle name. What on earth is the drama all about?”

I doubt there’d be any drama about that. The drama arises when a woman wants her name to be, or to be part of, the child’s last name. To change the patronymic tradition.

Why on earth anyone thinks they have more say than you what to name the human which is currently physically a part of you - mind boggling.

Exactly! OP you need to use this exact sentence to anyone how says another word about it, DH included!

My surname is our dc’s middle name, but looking back I wish we had double barrelled instead.
I think the OP needs to establish what the procedure for registration is (before the sil does!) and make sure she gets the card from the hospital etc. I do think this needs to be sorted face to face but if there’s any prospect of the father doing the registering himself she needs to stop that.
I think the father has the right to ask for his name to be included. I don’t think he has the right to ask for his wife’s name to be excluded.

I hope your stick to your guns, OP. It makes every follicle on my body bristle in indignation when I read of men laying down the law like this, as though they are the ones in charge of all the family decisions and that their wishes will always trump the wishes of the mere mother.

And tell your SIL to bugger off.

LolaSmiles nobody is "stopping" you from doing anything and I am not commenting on your personal choice. I am just disagreeing with the idea that feminism is about supporting all women whatever their choice. It isn't. As someone else has stated as feminism is about full equality between the sexes (politically, economically, personally, and socially). If you or anyone else is doing something that may make it harder to achieve that don't expect feminists to agree with you choice.

I completely support the OP and anyone who keeps their name on marriage but changing it on marriage does not equate to being “labelled your husband’s property” ffs. If you’re a vet as your name suggests I’m very surprised by someone so intelligent making such a stupid comment.

@YouBumder
My remark was made in response to another poster suggesting that the OP was somehow responsible for her husband's unreasonable behaviour because she hadn't followed the 'tradition' of name-changing upon marriage and had therefore contributed to his shitty behaviour. I was merely questioning why such a tradition based upon outdated misogynistic attitudes of women only being valued as property or as 'part' of their husband should be supported, or perpetuated.

You may think it stupid, but your opinion does not negate it being the founding principal of this 'tradition'.
British hereditary surnames are only about 1,000 years old. Imported by the French around the time of the Norman Conquest, they stabilised throughout much of English society by the 14th Century, with Celtic regions taking longer to adapt. Married women, however, were perceived to have no surname at all, since the Normans had also brought with them the doctrine of coverture, the legal principle that, upon marriage, a woman became her husband's possession. Her state of namelessness reflected this. In the words of one court in 1340, "when a woman took a husband, she lost every surname except 'wife of'".

By the 15th centuary, they became "a single person, because they are one flesh and one blood". As this idea gained ground, so did the clerical habit of designating a married woman by her husband's surname. The married woman had formerly been a vassal with no surname at all, but now, in theory, she came to share the surname of her husband as a symbol of their legal and spiritual unity. However, if there was one person in a marriage, that person was the husband. Married women still could not hold property, vote, or go to law. Legally, at the point of marriage they ceased to exist.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29804450

So traditionally women were either not worthy of a name in their own right, or labelled only in connection to their husbands and given his name. Either way this 'tradition is pretty unsavoury and not remotely a justification for blaming the OP or defending the husbands behaviour, which was the context of my comment.

I hope this lengthy explanation reassure's you as to my intelligence . You'll note I also managed to give it whilst not resorting to personal insults - it would be nice if you could manage the same!

I have never met anyone in real life who gave a baby anything but the fathers surname, unless there was no father to give one. For all the endless posts about giving children the mothers surname on here you would think it was the usual thing to do. It’s not and in nearly 40 years that I have been alive it never has been.

I’m not saying it’s wrong, do what you want.

I am not married and it would never have occurred to me that children would not have their fathers surname. I have never encountered anyone that has given their child the mothers surname other than one which was double barrelled, which looks and sounds ridiculous.