To ask brexiteers to explain to me why they want us to leave the EU?

[ethelfleda]

I have a totally open mind here. I did vote remain but I genuinely want to know why people think that leaving the EU is a good thing?
I’m not being goady - I actually want people to convince me that Brexit is a good thing so I don’t feel so terrified of what’s to come!
So what is it about the EU that’s bad for us? What will we achieve by leaving?

My parents both voted to leave.
They are educated people in their 50’s who USUALLY are extremely measured and sensible in their choices. People stero type them as rich while raciste ... but equally friende of theirs (Both Afghan immigrant doctors) also voted to leave so I really don’t think everybody who voted did so on rave issues 🤔

My parents despised to EU non elected officials, the volume of financial waste they generated moving sites and faffing around (mum only reads the guardian so no daily mail influence) and most of all she disliked their response to us trying to negotiate.

I believe my parents felt like the EU had become quite a beast and were essentially laughing at us for wanting to protect our own interests.

Another comment made by my parents was;
‘The UK simply doesn’t value the learning of foreign languages in the way that other EU countries do. So there are plenty of people coming here for entry level jobs but our ‘entry level’ workers can often barely speak English. So we’re providing a lot more opportunities than we’re giving- it’s a flaw with our system, there’s lots of flaws in our system, the UK is basically going tits up and that’s not directly the EU’s fault... but it’s been declining for decades and nobody is doing anything about it!’

OP. Read The Rotten Heart of Europe by Bernard Connolly. It's quite an old book and £1.69 on kindle. I know people who voted to stay will find fault with it.
I think basically, we think one way or the other and then find literature to support our views. As long as there's supporting literature out there for your particular view, I don't think many people change their minds on things unless something huge happens to change their thinking.

It just becomes a ‘why remain is best and I’m smarter than you and you’re thick and racist’ thread

Absolutely agree!

• my phone keypad is cracked so apologies for spelling

Ahhhhh!!! I came on ready to explain, and, lo, read the first few replies and, unsurprisingly, decide not to bother.

Think about it people. You're at a meeting;
'Can anyone explain how x will benefit us.'
Someone starts to respond, and is instantly interrupted..
' Oooh, yes, tell us, how can it POSSIBLY benefit anyone.'
'Anyone who thinks this will benefit us is a complete moron.'

Etc etc

The someone stays quiet.

Whenever they're threads on Brexit on mumsnet, about 99% of posters seem to be remain. Whilst demographics play a part, it is abundantly clear, that there are more than 1% of leavers on here.

The sheer stupidity of the first few responses, every time, shuts down debate.

What does mean though? Are you a leaver? Why couldn't you use this post to tell us your views instead of merely stating leavers can't explain if a remainer has insulted them

Are you new here? Or just never been on a Brexit thread?
I've been here ages and seen the threads before. You're not going to get an answer because the froth and insults from remain is absolutely astounding (I say this as someone who voted Remain!)
Faux innocence "I'm all ears, I really want to know" somebody bites and they fall around laughing and clapping each other on the back while throwing out insults.
Basic gist of it. (Not saying OP is like that, just it is the way it ALWAYS goes!)

Sorry op, it seems like you really wanted to hear. I would repost, and ask in your op for remainers to not respond anything.

I do wonder how many people's, who didn't have a clue who to vote, thought process was 'if I'm clever, I need to vote remain. Well, I'm clever, I've been to university and everything, id better vote remain. Then, whenever there's a discussion, I'll just contribute really clever stuff like 'you're racist and uneducated''

I- met a nice Brexiteer this weekend. We had quite a vigourous discussion. I repeatedly asked him to give me, just one good thing he thought would come out of brexit and he really struggled. In fact he didn't give me one good thing he thought would come out of Brexit. Eventually it all comes down to having independence for him. His big beef with the EU is he doesn't like anyone making rules for our country. So despite the fact that it's going to be a horrific shit show, And you can't think of one positive thing that's going to result from Brexit, at least we'll be making our own laws. It is his position. Bonkers.

I really wish it wasn't called Brexit. The word Brexit is about British exit and ignores Northern Ireland completely. It's actually the UK that's exiting and we should all now start referring to it as UKIT.

Brexit has been given as a major factor behind the closure of British steel & the masses of job losses in Sunderland. Sunderland voted massively for Brexit. So these analogies of turkeys voting for Christmas are really coming into play here. I do feel dreadful for all the people affected by job losses, these are the people that voted for Brexit and now they are losing their jobs because of Brexit. I wonder if any of them are actually making the connection? Or are they all simply in denial. It doesn't make any sense.

Threads like this are a waste of time because leavers come on just to say that nasty remainers are bullying them. Delicate flowers.

Faux innocence "I'm all ears, I really want to know" somebody bites and they fall around laughing and clapping each other on the back while throwing out insults.

That’s exactly what happens. The Brexit supporter who offers an opinion is discussed, pulled apart and sneered at, usually by the same group of remain supporters.
It used to be frowned upon on mn to describe anyone as ‘thick’ but since the referendum it’s become acceptable to use that as an insult to leavers.

I'm pro-remain and think remaining is best for the country. However, I accept that there is a small majority (or at least there were) that want to leave.

Even if the government suddenly decided to call off Brexit those concerns still exist and as a society we need to look at those concerns and see what can be done.

For example immigration. People were concerned too many immigrants from Europe were coming to take jobs or coming for benefits. It is possible to ask EU citizens who move here to register and if they are not in employment or find employment within a set time they can be deported to their home country, but the government has just not brought such a policy in.

Not sure I can come up with a way to stop a federal superstate but there is a lot as a country we could do that would fix a lot of the issues that are being scapegoated on the EU.

Threads like this are a waste of time because leavers come on just to say that nasty remainers are bullying them. Delicate flowers

Leigh doing a banging job of showing exactly what I mean lol

I've been asking politely for years too: elderly relatives, people I've met through work, people on panels at Brexit events, people on internet fora like this. No one has given me anything but emotional reactions (perfectly valid but neither resonant nor convincing for me), soundbites or playground-speak. I've read every public document and speech I can find.

Leavers aren't all racists or ignorant fools (some are but others are average joes like the rest of us) but the basis of their viewpoint seems fundamentally unsound to me. The politicians who support Brexit are almost all liars, scoundrels, racists and con artists.

I would need a great deal of evidence and rational argument to see Brexit in any other way.

Well Garden has answered that for you! We all believe what we read in the Mirror and the Mail. All of us. Every single one of us.

It’s absolute shite like that is the reason these discussions go nowhere!!

I recall visiting friends of mine in Scotland shortly before the vote.
One was British and the other a Swedish student. She told me all about how she was completing her degree for ‘free’ as Sweden had an agreement with Scotland that students could study for free at each place.

Meanwhile I was paying £9k a year to study (at a less prestigious) university in the UK (which I’d had to choose as couldn’t afford to live elsewhere)

It REALLY boiled my blood. I was a struggling early twenties mature student who just wanted to better myself and I remember feeling rather sour for a while afterwards that so many others were getting a better education for free!

It’s absolute shite like that is the reason these discussions go nowhere!

Yep!
Anyone who can read just needs to see the first page to see exactly why people don't engage with them "satisfactorily."

Small groups such as fishermen who have been subject to poor policies have legitimate beef with the EU. Steel and automotive workers in the north not so much if at all. And that is why most remainers are confused. Why would the people for scunthorpe vote to damage their town's key industry? It surely has to be an emotive reason and that is why the leave campaign was so emotive in calling to 'take control back', envoking impossibly large sums of money and immigration. Emotive reasons don't stand up long to logical scrutiny which is why leavers don't comment on these threads.

Exactly as @Anna said.

The brexit discussion has been killed here.

Unfortunately remain voters can’t understand that there are intelligent leave voters all across the UK who won’t engage in a debate simply to be called racist.

Every few weeks there is someone on here demanding or asking for an explanation from leave voters. The ‘faux innocence’ is a great phrase to describe it.

But the intelligent and educated leave voters, who do of course exist despite what remainers believe, won’t discuss it because of the attitude of remain voters.

The discussion has been killed.

@TheAngryLlama is the epitome of this.

I voted to leave the European Union because I was against the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. The negotiations were classified from the public ...and I didn’t see this as democratic.

And another one. We’re terribly well educated and intelligent you know. We could explain but we won’t.
Contemptible

Potential positives to leaving:

UK gets ability to make its own laws meaning more democracy/accountability

EU economy underperforms compared to UK economy so once disruption is overcome UK economy should improve.

Once trade terms are negotiated with other countries there's the great potential to trade extensively across the globe with a more fluid and dynamic economy resulting.

EU is moving towards the far right so we avoid that by leaving.

Things like Erasmus (mentioned by poster above) will continue after leaving. Plans to ensure that have been in place for a few years now.

I think in general as a country we'll be more outward looking and motivated to engage globally again than the UK has been as an EU confederate state.

All of these intelligent and educated leave voters with their top secret reasons for leaving that are entirely hidden from the public discourse. How incredibly convenient.