Family member wants to have a conversation with me about the “wider issues” between us, which I really don’t want to have - who has the final say on something like this

[Desolate1]

We had a big argument about what was supposed to be a joint short holiday this summer.

Long story. And slightly ridiculous were I to write it all down.

This person has repeatedly messaged me about my failings (though she also upset me and I told her this and why), and I have apologised repeatedly at this point.

We have done all of this by message, and now she is saying that unless I have a face to face conversation with her in which we discuss the “wider issues” between us, she is cancelling the holiday.

Can’t tell you how much I don’t want yet another conversation about this, or to be made to feel shit about “wider issues”.

Surely the person who doesn’t want this kind of conversation gets the final say? I feel like I will be forced at gunpoint to talk, and it’s making me feel like running a mile.

I'm on your side, OP. She's sent you repeated messages about your failings - of course you are defensive. Anyone would be. You have apologised but she wants to meet to talk it through - I can see how you would really hate to do that.

Who else would be going on this holiday? Personally I wouldn't go this year but make a vague agreement to go another year. Your kids will surely be happy with a different kind of holiday?

She has told me before that I am irrevocably changed (probably by my difficult marriage), but that kind of implies that she is judge and jury of such things, and that there is a better version of me that I am just not.

That is incredibly cruel of her.

She might be family but she is no friend. Cancel your holiday, Imagine being on holiday with this person.
No one can make you do anything, ignore any correspondence.

It's hard to guess without the background, my guess is that all the people saying it's bullying and you shouldn't meet her are right. But if they're not, the next possibility I wonder about is if there's a problem she wants fixed. In that case, your apologies are irrelevant, and possibly even infuriating, because they are shutting down the issue without actually fixing it, meaning she has to repeatedly endure whatever the problem is for the rest of her life.

Of course, without knowing the issue, and what she's trying to accomplish, I've no idea if I'm on the right track.

Also, reading your recent post about your divorce OP, can you just say to her that you've got enough going on trying to sort out your feelings about that and you just don't have the emotional energy right now to have a major conversation about your relationship with her?

Really she should be supporting you at a time like this in your life, not berating you for being a crap sister.

It does sound like it has to be all about her.

So you have had a diffult marriage & divorce & she just wants to pick at you?

Lovely.

Sorry to mention me again Op, but my sister would also say that I have changed-yes I have-I no longer jump to her tune!

I would cancel, especially if there's no cost incurred,

Cancel and go NC

You’re not in the right place to have this conversation or to go on holiday with your sister

The text back to her is

“look, I’ve apologised, you kept on sending messages about all the things ive down/said to offend you. I’ve apologised some more, but that’s still not enough apparently, now you’re threatening to cancel the holiday unless you are given yet more airtime to pick at me again. Enough. There will be no Big Talk, and actually there will be no holiday. I’m not interested in being a verbal punchbag, I’m bruised enough already. If you want to lash out at someone, I’ll give you my exh number, he’s far more deserving than I am. Have a good holiday/summer. Send us a postcard.”

She can also be lively and giving.

I think I am going to email and say that I am happy to meet up, but please can we not endlessly rehash the same things, and can I get a rough idea of what she wants to talk about.

Then I will also say that I don’t think that long standing issues can be fixed just like that (and many of them are jealousy related - we must have been deeply in competition over our parents in some way), but that we could both aim to be a bit more aware of what the other finds difficult. I am not always kind, it’s true, but partly I fear being engulfed by her.

Sorry, missed your post Mz.

Ugh this sounds v familiar to me. My sister expected a type of relationship that we were just never going to have - namely me to be an adoring sister who worshipped her while she made no effort whatsoever. We are also very different and raised to be a bit competitive which didn’t help.

In our last blow out she listed all the littlest of things I’d done wrong and I apologised for everything (even if I didn’t think she was being reasonable). When I said she’d hurt me too she wanted a list of every time she’d done something hurtful - something I didn’t think was useful/would only make the situation more toxic, but she insisted. After three of my examples were denied/refused to acknowledge them because she couldn't remember them (I felt like she was gaslighting and trying invalidate my feelings) I gave up.

I’ve since gone nc as this was just part of our ‘wider issues’ that were having a negative impact at the time my mh was already a struggle. I don’t need a drama llama in my life. I have enough real life stuff to deal with. It was tough at first, and I still have wobbles about what we are missing out on by not being in each other’s lives, but for my mental health it was necessary.

She reminds me a bit of a couple of women I used to work with. They had a great need to discuss and analyse absolutely everything. If you were a bit short with one of them one day at work, it always had to be discussed in detail later. It was never that you were just busy or thinking about something else. I started to dread interaction with them.

I am sure they thought that they were excellent examples of communicators and that the world would be better if everyone was like them. I found the conversations draining and would have preferred them kept only to the really important stuff. I'm not sure anyone was really wrong. I think it was just a clash of two personality types, much like you and your sister.

I'm surprised by the number of posters who seem to be overlooking the fact that you and your sister sound like two completely different personalities. And that those posters seem to have a very clear view that there is only one way of resolving a disagreement and that it's to have an in-depth conversation about it - regardless of whether one party is comfortable with that or not. That doesn't seem to me to be a very balanced way of reaching a resolution!

People are different. Some are big sharers and like to go over things in detail, others will retreat because they need time to reflect and don't want to dwell. Forcing someone whose personality is reserved to bare their soul and insisting it's the only way the other will feel better, seems rather cruel and self-serving.

The comment about OP being "irrevocably changed" are breathtakingly nasty - suggesting, as they do, that OP is somehow broken and should be better than this. Likewise the comments about OP being "cold" and "paralysed" suggest that her sister has a blinkered view that as OP doesn't share her personality traits then she is somehow lacking.

In your shoes OP, I'd email her. Explain that you are both different people and that the repeated requests to "have it out" are making you feel very upset and anxious because it feels as if she is not listening to you. That you have apologised on numerous occasions and she has responded with criticisms of your personality, and that in view of this she needs to realise that a conversation about "wider issues" comes across as her wanting another chance to have a go. That she needs to understand that your personality is different to hers - not better or worse, but different - and that if she loves you then she will accept that in the same way that you accept she does things differently. That a successful sibling relationship is built on mutual respect but that you feel as if she views you as lesser and broken simply because you don't think, act and feel the same way that she does. And that you want to move forwards from this but that doing so will be difficult unless you can both meet in the middle.

No honestly, don’t.

You don’t deserve this at the moment

Abusers are able to turn on nice when they need to, so just cos she’s nice when it suits her or when someone is watching, don’t let that make you line up for yet another kicking.

If ANYONE gives me an ultimatum “do THIS or i’ll do SOMETHING TO UPSET YOU” I tell them to fill their boots and crack on.

Don’t ever let anyone give you ultimatums, call them out every time

Its very hard, without knowing the sister's side to but going on what you've said, your gut is telling you that you cant face this conversation. You suspect it will be more of the same.
She repeats herself on a loop and has detailed all your failings. You have apologised repeatedly in response.
She says you are cold and defensive. Not knowing the situation I can only say being defensive is usually a reaction to someone else always being on the attack. Who wants that? If that is genuinely the reaction she provokes then yes. that is bullying.
If you have just gone through a difficult break up, then analysis by Sister is probably the last thing you want to go through, or should go through. If she can''t accept your apologies you have to tell her again, that you don't think anything can be served by this face to face confrontation - only you know if she is really prepared to apologise and wants to rebuild bridges..
If you are feeling fragile.. don't go on the holiday, which will be more of the same. Spend the money taking your DC away on your own instead. Good luck

I agree, MzHz. I don't behave according to ultimatums and I don't listen to character assassinations. Those two rules have served me well in life.

on a day to day basis I am simply trying to keep my head above water.

Is she aware of that?

Good luck OP - it seems to me that this is not really a dilemma that anyone outside yours and your sister's situation can answer - we don't know who's being unreasonable here.

You both are, and you both aren't.

Depending on point of view both these things are probable. No life-long relationship is black and white, and there are obviously issues between you and in your background.

But I could just as easily imagine a series of posts from your sister's point of view to which many posters would respond that you sound like a bully who withdraws to manipulate emotionally. It's as true and untrue as the posters on this thread calling your sister a bully.

Only you can sort this out, in real life. I'd still suggest that your best way forward is to focus on why your sister makes you feel the way you do. But that the focus is not on your sister, but on your responses.

Your sister is herself and has every right to be as she is. As do you. It doesn't really help, in these sorts of situations, to try to seek who's right and who's wrong.

And I'd recommend counselling for you. I have a very similar relationship with a family member which was caught in a vicious circle - the more histronic and emotional they became, the more that I retreated. Every conversation to 'clear the air' was actually an opportunity for them to rake over old ground and endlessly re-hash things which had supposedly been put to bed as part of previous discussions! Every transgression was linked to a personality defect and it basically ended up feeling like you were walking into a character assassination.

Counselling helped me to see that retreating was a preservation tactic - in the same way that a tortoise pulls itself into its shell and a hedgehog rolls into a prickly ball. There were other issues at play but counselling meant that I could become comfortable with my responses and recognise them as reasonable defensive measures which were a response to other issues. As a consequence the relationship reached a grudging understanding - eventually!

I think that even the use of the phrase 'clear the air' indicates that the sis wants some form of a reckoning and it's not going to be a positive heart to heart but shouty and explosive!

@sonjadog how did you manage the professional relationship with your colleagues? Have been in similar position when younger and I didn't manage it well as didn't have much self confidence back then.

Counselling would definitely be a great idea. We're all inclined to get 'stuck' in our childhood roles, and revert to them with siblings.

My sister and I had issues in that there were some big differences in how we thought, how we approached things, dealt with things, etc., and we both independently went and talked to counselors (very strangely we both did this at the same time with no consultation with the other!)

Our respective counselors gave very similar opinions as to what was causing the issues and advice on how best to resolve them, and things have been a lot better since.

It was quite funny when she sheepishly told me she'd been for counselling because of how things were between us - I just started laughing and said me too. That broke the ice I can tell you! 😅

I hate communicating through messages, it leaves so much room for misunderstanding. If there was an issue between my sister and I, I would also ask to meet her to talk about it.

I wouldn’t meet with her.

I was on the fence about her thinking maybe she just couldn’t comprehend someone else’s different way of thinking.

But you’re just coming out of a traumatic divorce. No one in their right mind would think now is a good time to send you repeated texts stating your flaws and wanting to meet up to essentially bring in some personal defects she can bash you with too.

You’ve texted and despite the fact you find this all hard youve apologised profusely. Where’re her apologies?

She can’t sent her sister going through a divorce a text with just a hint of empathy?

The cynical side of me thinks she is using this period of your lowness as you deal with your divorce.

I would also cancel the holiday. Fuck that. She doesn’t sound at all supportive. And it sounds like you need someone who’s out to bat for you right now.