Family member wants to have a conversation with me about the “wider issues” between us, which I really don’t want to have - who has the final say on something like this

[Desolate1]

We had a big argument about what was supposed to be a joint short holiday this summer.

Long story. And slightly ridiculous were I to write it all down.

This person has repeatedly messaged me about my failings (though she also upset me and I told her this and why), and I have apologised repeatedly at this point.

We have done all of this by message, and now she is saying that unless I have a face to face conversation with her in which we discuss the “wider issues” between us, she is cancelling the holiday.

Can’t tell you how much I don’t want yet another conversation about this, or to be made to feel shit about “wider issues”.

Surely the person who doesn’t want this kind of conversation gets the final say? I feel like I will be forced at gunpoint to talk, and it’s making me feel like running a mile.

I'm not sure I managed it terribly well. I got good at the "nothing's wrong, everything's fine, just busy" and walk off response, and made sure I was never sitting in the staffroom at a time when I could be ambushed. On the whole, I cultivated an air of being unapproachable. I don't think it was a good solution to it really, but that was what I had!

OP, in light of your latest updates, personally I wouldn't go ahead with a talk or the holiday. She sounds like she just wants to kick you when you're down.

Op could a neutral person-a parent? Someone without an axe to grind? A counsellor? - mediate this conversation to ensure it doesn't degenerate into a character assassination and stays productive, moving on when it needs to rather than endlessly retreading old ground?

I agree - no conversation, no holiday. She sounds like a controlling bully.

God knows you need loving, kind support at the moment. My divorce nearly destroyed me, and it was even more important than ever to stay low contact with my family (dsis sounds like yours, dm even nastier).

You don't need to answer to her.

I’d cancel the holiday. You’re completely incompatible personalities and really, is there anything positive for either of you from having a relationship with each other?

I am someone who needs to talk in great detail and analyse deep and underlying issues. I need to do this to be able to understand them and move on. As much as criticism of myself is never pleasant, I welcome it because it’s necessary (for everyone I believe) to be able to analyse and evaluate themselves in order to grow. You sound like someone I would find quite unpleasant - being cold and defensive as you admit you are, suggests a complete unwillingness to self-analyse or compromise and an unhealthy tendency to bottle things up or sweep them under the carpet. Forgetting your sister for a minute, do you really think it’s good for YOU to push bigger issues down and pretend everything’s fine?

Just because your sister wants to clear the air does not mean you have to let her.

You have free choice in the matter.

Send an email requesting she doesn't rehash old grievances will most likely mean nothing to her.

Her repeated texts indicate as much.

She'll get you into a room and hit you with all her pent up bile and opinions on you and your life.

Stuff you obviously don't want or need to hear.

Why give her the soap box she so craves.

You have been through enough.

Avoid her, and her opinions and put yourself first.

You sound like someone I would find quite unpleasant

I am not unpleasant though - far from it. I am patient, even tempered and generally try to be kind. At work I get on with everyone. I get on with my dc, my father, and other people I know. I generally get on okay with my sister as well.

I get defensive with her sometimes yes, to an extent, because she can overstep boundaries, be quite overwhelming and lecturing, and I find that difficult.

Regarding this holiday, there is not much to compromise over. She feels I was taking over, I have said I understand where she is coming from and have said sorry.

She reckons we are sniping at each other a lot and that we have to sort out deeper issues.

I am worried that this will open up a conversation that feels more attacking than anything else, and am reluctant to let that happen in case it is very upsetting.

I know I am not perfect, but neither is she.

You need a mediator at this meeting. No good will come of her going on and on rehashing long past occurrences of issues between you. You’ll just feel even more resentful.

My mother was like this. Every time we fell out she brought up how she’d supported me through being skint when my father lost his job. This apparently meant I owed her the behaviour she wanted (where I agreed with everything she said). At time of the aforementioned redundancy I was fucking four. It was a control thing - she was always going to be right and used these guilt tactics to get me to agree before she “could move on”.

Fuck that.

If this is what it’s like about the holiday before the holiday don’t go. It’s not going to be any better

You've been given some really good insights OP, i hope you use them to your advantage.

In terms of the criticism, I am just out of a horrible divorce and a dysfunctional relationship with my ex that I am probably never going to get over, and I am a little fragile. My self esteem can’t take a huge battering
She knows this.
She knows you are at your 'weakest' right now....so she's going to do whatever she can to maximise this opportunity.
She wants to use you as a verbal punching bag,make you responsible for her issues and when you try to defend yourself she'll use your 'failed' marriage as an 'example' of how 'fucked up' you are.
All of this done under the guise of 'caring' about you and 'helping' you.
She wants to kick you when you're down.
Anyone with an ounce of compassion would know that right now is not the best time to talk about your perceived faults.

She is refusing to accept your boundary - that you don't wish to rehash the past especially when these things can't be resolved overnight.
She's using the trampling of your boundaries as a condition of going on the holiday - that's called emotional blackmail.

The face to face demand is purely for her gratification so she can continue the drama.
Talking on the phone means you can end the call when she starts going off on one - and you haven't been inconvenienced by travelling to her.
It also means that she can effectively 'throw you out' of her house when you refuse to agree or submit to her.

That way she can look like the 'reasonable' one and also have 'evidence' of how unreasonable you are that she was 'forced' to make you leave.
She already knows you will not agree or submit to her.
The other thing with 'face to face' is that you have no witnesses or evidence of what transpires - which leaves her free to say whatever she will about it to other people - and also rewrite history accordingly.
Personally, with some one like this, i prefer to have the conversation in writing - gives me time and space to cool down and respond calmly without being shouted over.....and i have evidence for when they start to lie or rewrite history.

Personally, i'd tell her that we both know these 'wider issues' cannot be resolved overnight and you don't want that atmosphere clouding your holiday.
That the holiday is a chance for both of you to just relax and enjoy each other's company.
You can ask her what other stuff she wants to talk about on your return from the holiday - with the exception of the stuff you've already apologized for.
Tell her you're NOT having this discussion until after the holiday and that's final.
That way if she cancels the holiday and tries blaming you (which she will) you can safely reply that she chose to cancel the holiday because she refused to respect your boundaries.

You need to stand up for yourself a lot more OP.
Respect your own boundaries and don't allow anyone to force you to lower them.

I am not cold generally. She finds me cold because I find it difficult to be demonstrative, and the more she seems to expect it, the less it happens.

But generally I am quite pragmatic. Lord knows I hugged my dc when they were younger, and one of them still lets me / wants me to, but I am not really touchy freely with other adults. Isn’t that ok?

When we get on we can chat for ages. I was trying to say that one of the criticisms she has of me is that I am not physically demonstrative with her.

My sister expected a type of relationship that we were just never going to have - namely me to be an adoring sister who worshipped her while she made no effort whatsoever...After three of my examples were denied/refused to acknowledge them because she couldn't remember them (I felt like she was gaslighting and trying invalidate my feelings) I gave up....Abusers are able to turn on nice when they need to, so just cos she’s nice when it suits her or when someone is watching, don’t let that make you line up for yet another kicking

Sounds like the majority of my family

one of the criticisms she has of me is that I am not physically demonstrative with her
So she doesn't respect your bodily autonomy?
I guess you need to remind her of what we teach our children - that they are the boss of their body and have the right to say 'no' to unwanted physical affection/touch.

She knows you are at your 'weakest' right now....so she's going to do whatever she can to maximise this opportunity.

I think she sees herself as my closest person now - now that my ex is no longer on the scene, and in any case he was difficult. So she wants the closeness that she thinks my marriage got in the way of.

So she doesn't respect your bodily autonomy?

No she does, but I guess I would never hug, and she needs to. But it has become such a big issue that it all feels unnatural.

She does have a partner whom she is very touchy feely with, so she is not lonely.

Your condescending and patronising post paints you as someone I would find irritating and unpleasant dodgeballchamp. Not everyone needs or wants their every interaction to be subject to a full scale cod psycho analysis. Why does your need to talk in great detail and analyse deep underlying issues (of which there may be none) override someone else's need to just draw a line in the sand and move on?

There is no indication that the OP is not prepared to compromise nor that she is bottling things up and sweeping them under the carpet.

The OP's sister sounds like you, someone who wants to relentlessly pick over and over at something until you wear down the other person into acceding and accepting your view. To me, that is controlling and bullying you cannot accept that a person is different you must make them conform to your beliefs.

Desolate1 go with MzHz's advice, you don't need to be taken apart and have your every utterance and action analysed to the nth degree just to satisfy your sister's desire to put you in your place and be smug and superior. Protect yourself.

As much as criticism of myself is never pleasant, I welcome it because it’s necessary (for everyone I believe) to be able to analyse and evaluate themselves in order to grow. You sound like someone I would find quite unpleasant - being cold and defensive as you admit you are, suggests a complete unwillingness to self-analyse or compromise and an unhealthy tendency to bottle things up or sweep them under the carpet.

Coldness and defensiveness can be there for a reason. Hopefully being self-aware would make you realise that comments such as "you've been irrevocably changed by your divorce" would be likely to provoke such a reaction in someone who shies away from emotional confrontations.

People can be self-aware and willing to evaluate themselves without wearing their hearts on their sleeves. Why are their personality traits not respected? Why is it only good enough if they open themselves up and share every fear and issue?

The OP's sister sounds like you, someone who wants to relentlessly pick over and over at something until you wear down the other person into acceding and accepting your view. To me, that is controlling and bullying you cannot accept that a person is different you must make them conform to your beliefs.

^^ This.

I wouldn't meet up with a brow beating Bully

I think I am going to email her and take her at face value - that she wants to move forward positively if we meet up. But I will also say that I can’t rehash the holiday argument or enter into mutual character assassinations.

Yes there is loads of very good advice here. I am always bowled over by that .

Your further posts strengthen my view that the joint holiday would not be a good idea.

Given what you say about her, your difficult history, what she’s said about you and how she’s treating you at an already difficult time suggests that she would also not be a good close person to confide in. Boundaries are important here.

You cannot and should not try to force closeness either physical or emotional. Your sister is putting her needs and wants above yours and this conversation is all about her railroading you into being what she wants with no consideration of you at all, she cannot accept that you are two different people. The Big Talk is all about remaking you in her own image and to do this she has to break you down and rebuild you, none of this is for your benefit it is only for hers.

Having read your posts since just before my last one, I've come down more firmly on the side of not having this meeting. Your sister isn't your boss, she' s not entitled to anything. You be the judge of what's good for you, only do what you want, and if she trys to nag you into something, tell her firmly to get lost. Remember at all times that you don't have to explain yourself, if you don't want to.

I guess I would never hug, and she needs to
Nobody 'needs' to hug -they 'want' to.
Therefore, she's not respecting your right to bodily autonomy - she's ignoring your decision and using it to emotionally blackmail you.

She's basically trying to force you into behaving as though you have this close relationship - which you don't.
She might want to be the closest person to you - but you never have been and you are not comfortable with that right now.

She's not listening to you or respecting your decisions.

OP you sound like you are “strong” and put up walls. Maybe being a bit more vulnerable would help both of you?

Why not say “I’ll meet up because you’re my sister and I love you but please be aware I’m feeling pretty emotionally beaten after my divorce and all that so please don’t let’s just rehash old arguments”.