Family member wants to have a conversation with me about the “wider issues” between us, which I really don’t want to have - who has the final say on something like this

[Desolate1]

We had a big argument about what was supposed to be a joint short holiday this summer.

Long story. And slightly ridiculous were I to write it all down.

This person has repeatedly messaged me about my failings (though she also upset me and I told her this and why), and I have apologised repeatedly at this point.

We have done all of this by message, and now she is saying that unless I have a face to face conversation with her in which we discuss the “wider issues” between us, she is cancelling the holiday.

Can’t tell you how much I don’t want yet another conversation about this, or to be made to feel shit about “wider issues”.

Surely the person who doesn’t want this kind of conversation gets the final say? I feel like I will be forced at gunpoint to talk, and it’s making me feel like running a mile.

Does the fact that I don’t particularly want a face to face conversation make it all about me?

I'm sure others have said this so shut up then but maybe the error both of you have made is to have had this "conversation" by message, rather than face to face? There are so many nuances of voice, tone, expression, face & body language that messaging doesn't communicate.

So in your situation, I'd be thinking about a face to face conversation just to close off the whole thing. Because otherwise you look like you're witholding & passive-aggressive.

I'm not saying you are just that it looks like it. And you won't be able to close off the situation - it was always be there.

If you don't do close relationships very well, or want to hide from emotional involvement, maybe you can rehearse what you want to say to your sister. But I think you both need to talk face to face.

I thought this was a reverse - there is a poster who wants to talk something out with a friend. Although by 'talk' she meant steamroller the friend into agreeing with her. Not a case of talking there, just another chance to put her point across.

If it similar here then I can see why you wouldn't want to meet up.

I reckon a pp is right, she wants to meet so you can do the Mea culpa, woe is me, beat your breast and cry, then she’ll be satisfied. As you have already repeatedly apologised, all she can say now is a reiteration of this and how you’ll never do it again, blah blah. Pointless meeting her.

However, I’m a nosey bitch so I would meet her and try to remain detached to see what more she can possibly say/want.

I am scared of having this conversation

A very wise person once advised me that if something someone else said about me caused a strong gut reaction - especially one I didn't understand - then I might reflect on that reaction. Not so much whether what they said/did was correct or accurate (it seems to me you'll never agree with your sister about this) but to use my strong response as a tool for trying to work out my own feelings.

So why are you scared of this conversation? Not scared of your sister - think about it as if it has nowt to do with your sister's views of you, but reflect on your response.

You don't need to discuss that with anyone else. BUt use it as a tool for your own emotional learning & development. I find this helps me to clarify what my issues really are. And helps me to deal with other people's views with which I disagree strongly. I can be calmer & more balanced in engaging with the other person. And I am less distressed & there's less of a toll on me emotionally.

And frankly if one of my sisters said that my desire to talk to them scared her, I'd find that really upsetting. You don't need more upset in this situation.

It sounds to me like the behaviour you've had to apologise for is a symptom of an ongoing issue in your relationship. For your sister an apology isn't enough, she wants to get to the bottom of why it happened, I presume so it doesn't happen again. If it's something that's happened a lot, or something that's really upset her then I think the fact that she wants to talk it through it a signal that she really wants things to be better, rather than just glossing over it until it happens again and possibly ruins your relationship forever. If you refuse to engage then that may be the final signal she needs that you're not interested in improving things - you're not really interested in preventing this from happening again, you just want her to take the apology and move on and run the risk of the same sort of hurt again.

To me it sounds like your sister will not accept this 'situation' is over until you give her what she wants and that you take the blame for whatever 'this' is.

If it was me I would send one last text telling her that you have apologised on more then one occasion and you will not do it anymore. So yes cancel the holiday and for her to return any money due to you ASAP.

As I suspect even you had a face to face meeting with her, and admit all your faults she will still be a dog with a bone and bring these things up during your holiday.

I need time to respond to stuff like this, or in the very least be prepared in advance.

I would say

'In order for me to agree to meet up, you will need to tell me what these 'wider issues' are. I have no interest in meeting up unprepared, when you have had time to think about what you want to say and I have no idea what you want to speak about. If you wish to cancel the holiday, that's entirely up to you. I am happy to make my own arrangements.'

If you were organising a holiday together, I'm curious as to how you might have "overstepped".

Did you really-or is that just her opinion?
(You don't have to answer-just something to think about)

If my sister says something I don't like then it's either a joke I didn't get, or I have no sense of humour or I should know that she didn't mean it & therefore it's my fault for getting upset.

For my part, it has been great to realise that we are different people & don't get on & I don't have to do as she wants/says or see her if I don't want to.

I wouldn't tolerate her as a friend-I do as a sister for parents sake.

I've had the same kind of troubles with my sister too... very much like Landlubber2019. I was accused of being passive/aggressive and in denial. I think I had to put up a massive wall to protect myself from her bullying. She delights in reducing people to tears (she even did it to my teenage daughter when she could no longer get to me).

We don't speak much anymore. My life is so much easier and calmer.

Weirdly she has gone on to train as a therapist!

If she won't accept that written apologies are enough, what on earth does she expect from you? I suspect nothing less than a major grovel, which will just actually make the relationship worse.

I don't know what I did there - but that^^.

Maybe your family dynamic is more healthy than mine, but there is no way I would meet up for what would be a personal attack. I'm open for talking about difficult situations in constructive ways and have done so many times, but listen to someone list my perceived personal failings? Nah, not interested. I am also not interested in changing who I am to suit what someone else thinks I should be. I don't think that really works anyway (and I'm too old to be bothered). Some relationships are closer than others and your sister cannot make you be the sister she wants to have just because that is what she wants.

So I would meet up or not based on my past experience with your sister. Is it likely to be a constructive conversation or a long list of criticism? Is she likely to listen to your viewpoint or try to force you to be someone she wants you to be?

OP having read through the thread and based on your replies I'm gonna be blunt. You come across like a bundle of nerves and the the fact you say you're scared to have a conversation with her sounds to me like your sister is a bully. You have apologised more than once and yet she wants to "talk about wider issues" translates as steamrolling you into submission. It seems your blaming and doubting yourself over this and she has no part in it. Have a read of this www.ilanelanzen.com/familyandparenting/10-signs-you-have-toxic-family-members-and-3-things-you-can-do-about-it/
Well and truly if you don't wanna meet and have a conversation then don't just say I've apologised, if you don't wanna accept thats down to you but I am not willing to discuss further

You are being massively unreasonable and childish in failing to have an adult conversation with your sister. I can't believe all of this texting each other and apologizing over txt crap. Grow up and have a conversation.

I don't blame you for not wanting to talk to her face-to-face under the described circumstances, OP.

She has been texting you umpteen times over the past few WEEKS, and yet hasn't managed to apologise once for her behaviour and treatment of you in your disagreement while you have apologised repeatedly and profusely.

That is telling.

Her pretending she only want to apologise face-to-face sounds like bollocks. She doesn't intend to apologise. She intends to dredge up all the ways you are wrong and she is right and how all the problems in your relationship with her are all your fault, no?

Tell her you want her to apologise for her behaviour. For how she's talked at you. For how she's not bullying you. And only then will you consider having a conversation with her about the proposed holiday, but not the 'wider issues' she wants to discuss since that sounds like an agenda designed to make her look like the hard done party and you the bad guy, and that's not reasonable or fair.

Tell her a neutral third party might be in order, like a counsellor, if she is unhappy with your need of an actual apology now, before moving forward, and your desire to focus the conversation on pre-determined topics.

I would also be willing to cancel the holiday rather than be made to feel bad on it. Holiday time is precious. Yes, it might have been her idea, but it will be your holiday time, too if you go, and you have a right to input. (It doesn't sound fun under the circumstances. Are you sure you want to do this?)

And I could always leave if it became too one sidedly critical of me, and more repetition of the same things.
You are upsetting your sister but you don’t want to hear it?

It all sounds exhausting. Why not just tell her you don’t want anything to do with her and be done with it. Take your kids on holiday yourself. You obviously don’t care about the relationship so just let it go.

You are upsetting your sister but you don’t want to hear it?

I have already heard it. Repeatedly. And apologised.

I didn’t say I don’t want anything to do with her, I just don’t want to be criticised endlessly when it has already repeatedly happened.

Thanks for all the perspectives. They are very helpful, and I am going to decide what to do.

A holiday when there is tension in family relationships isn’t a good idea: the DC wanting to go isn’t a strong enough reason to go!

Your sister sounds a bit like my mother, who had a horrible tendency to back us into a corner and harangue us with whatever was on her mind because it was "for our own good." As someone has noted upthread, one of the problems with that is that it was an unfair approach because we didn't know what she was going to say and didn't have a chance to defend ourselves. As we got older, at least we got to know what the likely themes were going to be so could prepare our responses - and she could never cope with us answering back. Net result: we got so pissed off with the harangues that we would usually go off and do the opposite of what she wanted, and it's one of the things we all resent my mother for to this day.

It would be interesting to hear your sister's view of this situation.

My guess it that you don't want a balanced relationship with her and probably don't like her or her personality.

I think your sister is being portrayed as the one who is causing you problems when really your refusing to speak to her face to face speaks volumes.

She has probably had enough of your defensive and difficult behaviour and is calling you out on it and you do not like it at all.

We do have issues, but they go back to childhood - not sure how you unpick those in half an hour or what talking about them might lead to.

We do see each other, she sees my dc etc so that’s all good.

We do find each other difficult sometimes - partly because we are very different, and partly due to the past issues. It’s not terrible however. I would say that I find her a bit overwhelming and that she oversteps boundaries, and she probably finds me a bit withholding and defensive. I also find her very lecturing on a lot of topics. She probably finds me a bit harsh in her regard sometimes. Not sure if that’s me trying to maintain my ground.

I think it is very difficult to get out of the roles we have assigned ourselves, and not sure to what an extent she just wants me to change and to convince me that the things I think about her are not true.

In any case, I don’t really want to bring up the issues as I don’t think they will go away really. I would be happy with settling on trying to be kind to one another.

The thought of an engineered deep and meaningful conversation does make me cringe however. She says that I am depressed and paralysed () and that she wants to help. I would find it more helpful if we could try to move on.

I think the idea of talking but setting some kind of parameters is a good one. Some posters have given me very good ideas on how to approach this - thank you.

In terms of the criticism, I am just out of a horrible divorce and a dysfunctional relationship with my ex that I am probably never going to get over, and I am a little fragile. My self esteem can’t take a huge battering.

Regarding this holiday, I offended my sister, but there are also ways in which she made things difficult for me, so it really wasn’t one sided.

Confrontation may be difficult for you but you're going to have to face her on the holiday so I do think it's best that you meet before the holiday. Otherwise, the conversations will just happen on holiday and spoil it for everyone.
Sometimes an apology isn't enough. In fact, in our house we have a rule that an apology isn't enough. You have to proactively do something to make it better. It sounds as though you've sent a 'sorry' and want everything to be forgotten. That makes your apology seem insincere.
I have a DSIS who is a very different personality from me. I understand how difficult it can be so I do sympathise with you but, on this occasion, I think you need to have the chat.

I think anyone critical of you here does not have the same sort of occasionally fraught sister relationship, that stems from unhelpful childhood dynamics.

I think my relationship with my sister could be better. Can I fix it?

No, I don't think so, as I can't be the person she wants me to be. I'm not even sure I know what that vision is...

I would swerve the holiday. It sounds like you have enough to sort elsewhere just now.

That makes your apology seem insincere.

Yes maybe, but I do genuinely understand where she was coming from, and have said so.

The whole thing has IMO been blown out of proportion, and there are also things she is demanding from me that I am about.

She has told me before that I am irrevocably changed (probably by my difficult marriage), but that kind of implies that she is judge and jury of such things, and that there is a better version of me that I am just not.

I don’t say things like that to her, and on a day to day basis I am simply trying to keep my head above water.

" when really your refusing to speak to her face to face speaks volumes."

Really-what does it say?

Op if you don't want her help to not be "depressed & paralysed" then she needs to be OK with that.

My sister probably finds me "withholding"-ie I don't tell her everything that she wants to know!

I also find her overwhelming & retreat so that I can cope.

That's just how we are, but it bothers her as I'm not reacting to her how she wants me to.