Family member wants to have a conversation with me about the “wider issues” between us, which I really don’t want to have - who has the final say on something like this

[Desolate1]

We had a big argument about what was supposed to be a joint short holiday this summer.

Long story. And slightly ridiculous were I to write it all down.

This person has repeatedly messaged me about my failings (though she also upset me and I told her this and why), and I have apologised repeatedly at this point.

We have done all of this by message, and now she is saying that unless I have a face to face conversation with her in which we discuss the “wider issues” between us, she is cancelling the holiday.

Can’t tell you how much I don’t want yet another conversation about this, or to be made to feel shit about “wider issues”.

Surely the person who doesn’t want this kind of conversation gets the final say? I feel like I will be forced at gunpoint to talk, and it’s making me feel like running a mile.

Wouldn't be going on holiday with anyone I had difficulties with.

Part of the problem between us is that she wants a different relationship with me, yet I can be detached and defensive.

It does seem that you're being cold and defensive; and your insistence that she could just get passed this and forget about it, and everyone just carry on as they are, is displaying those same behaviours.

For a relationship to work, you'll need to meet each other half way. Do you not do that with anyone else? If you're cold and detached overall, and not just with your sister, I'd imagine that you'd have to meet "warmer" friends and other family members half way too.

You don't have to have the conversation, but you'd admitted yourself that it'd probably be good. Your comment about feeling humiliated is interesting - is that a general reason for you to avoid showing emotion or building closer relationships? Maybe counselling would be a good idea for you to explore this; whether or not you meet your sister.

I'm inclined to agree with Libby. Your DSis is frustrated, aggrieved, upset... whatever..

I am slowly losing a friend of 55 years because she won't engage with me about the problem we had. Bury it deep if you want but it sounds like it won't be resolved.

OP... are you expecting she will just attack you and your character when you meet? Would it really not just clear the air, have a hug and maybe a few tears and both move on?

It might be a small thing in your eyes but to her it could be yet another example of, say, you dominating her. It could be the straw that broke the camel's back.

You could try stopping apologising, take it off you and onto her. Ask why she is so upset about this? Get it away from what's wrong with you and onto what's going on with her. Maybe if she has some serious self-confidence issues then you might find you modify your behaviour towards her out of kindness towards her rather than out of a feeling that you have wrong behaviour that must be corrected.

Underneath her request to talk about wider issues is a wish to have a closer more loving relationship with you, her sister.
This could make things better between you..?

OP, you need to stick to your boundaries and maybe look at being more assertive - as in spelling out your point of view - rather than retreating into your shell with her.

As PP have said, a sibling relationship is a long and complicated one and childhood issues aren't easily outgrown. It sounds like she's decided how your relationship should be and is trying to make you fit that mould.

Maybe the holiday won't be as dreadful as you think but there's a good chance it will be. Don't be browbeaten into either the holiday or the showdown.

We have very different perspectives of things, our memories of our childhood and even my trauma. She isn't interested in listening.

this is so true. We all have different relationships with our parents, so of course the perspective is different.

My oldest brother was the golden child and I was the scapegoat. We simply cannot talk about our mother. In his eyes she was marvellous and I am just a trouble maker (in the old days in my early 20s, when I tried to talk about my experience)

But interestingly, because I have worked hard on it in therapy and 12 steps, I have accepted it and let it go.

He is far more rage filled about it all whereas I genuinely have reached serenity. She had her own traumas. But he blames his rage on me!!! Oh well

You say that she has sent long messages and you have apologised. Have you simply said "sorry"? Because it seems from what little you have written that she doesn't feel heard.

Meet her in a coffee shop or somewhere that you can leave, so that you have some control over how long the conversation lasts. Put on your imaginary armour. Put the focus on what she feels, not on what that says about you. Maybe you WILL learn something that you want to address yourself, but don't take it all on as a list of grievances that you have to fix. Reflect some of it back to her, so that she feels heard - so if she says "You dismissed my feelings" you can reply "I am sorry if you felt I dismissed your feelings. I didn't intend to. We just communicate in different ways. I care about your feelings."

It sounds like she is carrying a lot of bad feeling, and I can understand that it would be difficult for her to detach from her feelings and get on with the holiday.

But - if she is genuinely a bully and you don't want to engage in a deep and meaningful which might make you feel worse, then I think you need to accept that the relationship isn't in a good place, and the holiday will be cancelled.

I can only guess that the more she pokes and prods the more you retreat and build that wall around you even higher. Her idea of a conversation might be an opportunity to rip your personality apart. I am guessing you won't reciprocate, so will leave the whole episode feeling attacked. As a result, moving forward, you'll be even less open and vulnerable with her, and she will continue throwing her toys out of the pram because you are not the sister she thinks she deserves.

Been there. 7 years NC.

Be careful OP.

Do we “run meetings” with our siblings?

This made me laugh. My manager DB can get very pompous in discussions where he wants to "clear the air" or talk about "correct behaviour". It really is like being in a meeting with your manager and I hate it.

Thanks for all the messages. My battery died and I had to recharge the phone .

A lot of food for thought and thank you so much.

I really am going to think about this properly and decide what to do.

Why are you even considering going on holiday with her? It sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Can you meet with restrictions?

Set it up like a debate. A 3 minute timer, keep on topic. 2 goes each and it's over.

Stifledlife

God, that sounds dreadful.

havent read the whole thread. I had a relative exactly like that. Just meant bullying and tearing strips out of me, humiliation etc etc.

If you dont want the conversation or whatever just dont have it. Is a miserable holiday really worth it? Just make up a reason for dc for no holiday.

Leave the bully to it.

You don’t owe her a conversation just he said she has demanded one. Just say that you aren’t interested in working through your issues and you aren’t interested in becoming closer. You aren’t obliged to do what she says just gecause she’s your sister. Maybe if you stood up for yourself it would help prevent her instigating a similar drama in the future.

Instead of sending you all the text messages, why isn't she just called you and actually talk to you on the phone If she wants to talk? that would be a conversation wouldn't it? Or am I missing something here?

@desolate1 I’ve just read this thread from the start. You should read your own posts back again, as what you have written here is exactly the conversation you need to have with your sister.... you’ve already said to us what you need to say to her. Try not to be scared, it will be easier in real life than it is in your head right now. We all need to compromise with family and you’ll feel better if this is resolved with her.

Underneath her request to talk about wider issues is a wish to have a closer more loving relationship with you, her sister.

Well, hopefully there is. Or there might be an underlying need to Be Right, and talk at the OP until she accepts that she is in the wrong. The OP needs to be a little cautious going into a (possibly one-sided) discussion with someone who has been ruminating for months and tends to go over and over the same grievances without listening.

Your complete refusal to engage with this is exactly why she's pushing for it. Can't you see this?

How on earth has OP refused to engage? She's put up with loads of messages spelling out her failings and apologised several times over. Can't you see that? Frankly, after the first exchange and apology, if the sister had carried on whinging about it most people would have told her to grow up and get over it.

Hi OP you sound a bit like me! I can be reserved and resentful and my larger than life sister can be very hard work. Over the years we have had many simmering standoffs and a few blowouts. In each case they were seemingly over trivial things but underneath the wider issues were bubbling away.

What helped in my case was sending a very long email about how the wider issues were affecting us. I went to town on things she had done that had upset me and my family. She listened and responded. Some of the things she was genuinely unaware of, some she contested, but many she responded by understanding that they had upset me and apologising. Of course she had issues too which I listened to and dealt with in the same spirit.

If we had tried to do it face to face, I don't think it would have worked. Would have just been an argument.

There was competitiveness and jealousy coming from both of us which we hadn't really appreciated. Now we are in a place where we can easily bring up something irritating that the other has done. Actually, now I tend to think that I am the more annoying one out of us both - but she loves me anyway!

I agree with a lot of other posters - if you don't sort it before the holiday it will come out then anyway. Better to deal with it now and try and end the impact on the rest of your joint family - whcih it will invariably be having. But if you can't do face to face because she's the more dominant, give her the opportunity to do it via messaging/email. Say you will genuinely want to improve things and you want to work it through, even though it will be difficult and you have been trying to avoid conflict or whatever.

Good luck.

I can understand your reluctance fully, OP, this sort of thing would really make me cringe. I can just imagine the awkwardness of sitting down for a meeting and having to listen meekly whilst the sister trots out the same list of grievances again, maybe with embellishments, because she has ordained that that is the only way to move on. I rather doubt that she expects to keep quiet if you come up with your own list. If she won't accept that written apologies are enough, what on earth does she expect from you? I suspect nothing less than a major grovel, which will just actually make the relationship worse.

Instead of sending you all the text messages, why isn't she just called you and actually talk to you on the phone If she wants to talk?

Yes actually, good point.

I guess we both retreated after round 1.

Then two weeks later there was round 2 (I thought it might have blown over but it hadn’t).

Then I have been saying I don’t want to talk. For fear of how it might be I guess.

It all brings up a lot of uncomfortable stuff.

I might say that I will meet to talk, but that we shouldn’t reiterate the holiday stuff yet again because that has been done, many times now. I misjudged something, overstepped the mark and have already said sorry and that I can see how it was annoying.

Am going to look back over the messages at people’s suggestions re. having the conversation in general.

I am worried that it’s a can of worms however...

even if something isnt a big deal to you it obviously is to this other person.it would be nothing to listen and have a aconversation.the reason you cant is actually ebcasue it is a big deal and you cant/wont face it.you say it makes you feel ick talking it through this means its 'something' otherwsie you would have no problem having an adult conversation about it.

Missed intervening messages so am reading them now.