Family member wants to have a conversation with me about the “wider issues” between us, which I really don’t want to have - who has the final say on something like this

[Desolate1]

We had a big argument about what was supposed to be a joint short holiday this summer.

Long story. And slightly ridiculous were I to write it all down.

This person has repeatedly messaged me about my failings (though she also upset me and I told her this and why), and I have apologised repeatedly at this point.

We have done all of this by message, and now she is saying that unless I have a face to face conversation with her in which we discuss the “wider issues” between us, she is cancelling the holiday.

Can’t tell you how much I don’t want yet another conversation about this, or to be made to feel shit about “wider issues”.

Surely the person who doesn’t want this kind of conversation gets the final say? I feel like I will be forced at gunpoint to talk, and it’s making me feel like running a mile.

It depends really. If you think a face to face is going to be all about her listing out all the things that are wrong about you and you are just expected to sit there and take it all on board and agree with her then no way would I be putting myself into that position.

But if you think that there is a good probability that it would clear the air allow you both to make up and put it behind you then it is a good idea and you are the one that needs to make some effort.

If its the former then I think the holiday is already ruined as she is not going to let it go and you will have to hear it now or on holiday or be prepared for lots of passive aggressive digs while you are away,

If it's the latter then decide you are not going to be defensive, hear her out see if there is any of your behaviour that is causing her hurt in some way and see if there is something you can do to modify it.

You know her best and it might be better to cut your loses and let her pull out of the holiday as she has threatened.

gamerwidow

What might I be missing?

"Not sure why I feel so awkward at the thought of talking but I do. And the more she presses the point, the more awkward I feel."

Because she is violating your boundaries. Listen to your gut.

You also say: 1. you have apologised and she hasn't. 2. that she repeats herself and doesn't let it go

Those are not great signs of a healthy person, OP. There is only one truth, and it is hers. There is only one person that matters, and that is her. She is giving herself the right to 'teach you a lesson'. Not caring, and showing no consideration that she herself is not perfect.

Healthy people are considerate of the other and meet half way. That is why they live in happy relationships, because conflicts get resolved in time and involve BOTH peoples feelings.

I would ask her to write you a letter. She can pour out her feelings on that. [Remember, its her truth and YOU DO NOT have to take it personally or try to defend yourself]. Then, ask her how you can make amends and what SHE would like from you, in order to heal this and move forward.

That pretty much stops the reactivity and takes the wind out of her sails. It is putting the ball back into HER court, and putting her in charge of framing what she would like.

The worst thing to do is stonewall, defend yourself or counter attack. All reactivity creates more reactivity (escalation). Remember, its her truth and that is not your problem. There is a wonderful 12 Step phrase: 'what you think of me is none of my business'. And 'your behaviour does not determine my worth'.

Then, after that, having demonstrated that you care about her feelings and have listened to her sadness (given that space), be firm and tell her its resolved and no more, up to and including cancelling the holiday.

But normally listening without reactivity and asking 'how can I make this better for you?' does the trick. But put it in writing, not in a meeting that can go out of control.

Especially if, as pp suggests , this is your own 15yr old daughter, !

No, definitely my sister.

I am scared of having this conversation, but the idea of setting boundaries beforehand is a good one. And I could always leave if it became too one sidedly critical of me, and more repetition of the same things.

Regarding wider issues - they’re not ones which you can solve overnight so is there any point in telling someone how you really feel about part of the way they are, when it is going to be hurtful and in any case you are still going to be two very different people at the end?

@desolate1 my sister 's issues with me is that i am passive aggressive. But I find her behaviour confrontational, threatening and aggressive. So I do understand your reluctance to meet face to face.

Do you normally have a good relationship? Is this just a blip?

I never had a good relationship with my sister, I felt our meeting was just another opportunity to beat me with a big stick. As difficult as the estrangement, it's been much less dramatic and my life has been much calmer subsequently. But I do wish I had a lovely supportive sister.

I know you've said there's been lots of messages but sometimes you need to meet in person to try and sort things out properly.

they’re not ones which you can solve overnight so is there any point in telling someone how you really feel about part of the way they are, when it is going to be hurtful and in any case you are still going to be two very different people at the end?

No intention of trying to change?

Regarding her apologising, she says she wants to but wants to do it face to face

That means she HASN'T apologised. Meanwhile the OP has apologised profusely and repeatedly.

So it sounds like thus far, her communication with the OP has been all personal attacks but no insight into it taking two to tango. No apology in return for all of OPs apologies.

Why would a face to face be any different?

Sorry, I missed lots of messages and they are all very helpful. Thank you.

To be blunt, she sounds like an unpleasant bully. But only you know her, trust your instinct.

People don't become defensive in a vacuum, there may be a very good reason why you're holding back.

OP,
You can behave in whatever way you want.

It’s your life, your body, your mind. NOBODY has a right to expect anything from you (with maybe the exception of your children)

You can behave in a way that makes you happy and comfortable. You don’t owe a certain behaviour to anyone else.

It depends what you want to do and what you are willing to lose.

If your sister makes you feel horrible then it is perfectly reasonable to cut contact, but you can’t have it both ways and expect certain behaviours from her. She is also entitled to behave in a way she wants.

I think this trying to talk is a cover for trying to get the other person to do and act in a way they want.
Just don’t play the game and walk away if she won’t leave it. Give it some time but maybe leave the door open with ‘I have spoken at length with you about our issue and I don’t wish to talk about it anymore. When or if you are ready to let the issue go then I would love to start our relationship again but until then I need some space’ or similar.

My sister thinks I'm cold and don't talk. She doesn't know that it's because I cannot talk to her. We have very different perspectives of things, our memories of our childhood and even my trauma. She isn't interested in listening. Several times I've "heard her out", because although our relationship isn't super close, I love her and I know it helps her. Be the bigger person, have phrases prepared. I'm not saying you have to, or have any duty to, but it saved my relationship with my sister.

if "the wider issues", are that you are jealous rival siblings & she has always been domineering & makes you feel trapped & inferior.
Then the best solution IMHO is to keep as far away from her as possible. Although the roles may be reversed

Maybe you are cold. You are definitely defensive. So what? If you are happy as you are and it doesn't cause any serious damage then you are fine to tell her that your personality is cold and defensive and so a session where she tries to get it all in the open simply won't give her what she is seeking.

I'd ask her how she would plan to run that meeting, what specific outcomes she hopes to get out of it, how she thinks it will benefit each her, you and everyone else. None of this "clear the air" vagueness, make her say what she means by "clear the air".

No intention of trying to change?

Do either of us have to change? Is it possible for our personalities to be different?

I could try to be less defensive it’s true, but I can’t change the person I am. She wants a different type of relationship with me, more in line with the kind of person she is.

I am not awful. Good and bad like everyone.

We mutually find each other difficult at times, but I am not expecting her to be different. Yes and I do find that she oversteps boundaries.

I'd ask her how she would plan to run that meeting, what specific outcomes she hopes to get out of it, how she thinks it will benefit each her, you and everyone else. None of this "clear the air" vagueness, make her say what she means by "clear the air".

I choked on my coffee at “run that meeting”. Do we “run meetings” with our siblings?

And, continue to work on your character defects whatever she does or doesn't do or says!

12 steps is the most incredible blue print for living a good life in self, family and work.

It is also FREE (apart from a small donation) group therapy.

It saved me absolute £££££ in lawyers fees after I started practising 'live and let live' and 'detach with love'.

It is a real shame that more people don't know about 12 steps meetings. It is the most incredible way of learning how to deal with difficult people and situations that life will always send you, and how to focus on changing your own difficult behaviour. Al Anon, ACA, Co dependents Anonymous is a real gift.

I was dealing with a narcissist, so just mentally replaced 'narcissist' with 'alcoholic' in the teachings. [Narcissism and addiction are closely correlated co morbidities, anyway. Where you find one you usually find the other, and the fall out in families is the same].

I'm with you OP. Whether we are healthy in that I don't know.

Only you know what her true motivation is here.

Do either of us have to change? Is it possible for our personalities to be different?

My position on this is yes, if you want a good relationship with someone who finds cold and defensive hurtful, you should try to work on those character flaws. Because that’s what they are: flaws. They’re not just “this is how I am”. They cause harm.

I’m sure she could work on her flaws, too.

Definitely cancel the holiday.
Your relationship with your sister will not benefit from it.

Some people need to talk things to death and will repeat their point 10 different ways until you are so brow beaten from them you just want to run away.

I think she wants the opportunity to repeat endlessly her criticisms of you.

No good will come of it.

I would text her and say "Cancel the holiday, it's the best thing at this point. I have apologize sincerely for my part. I have no intention of listening to any more criticism of my personality from you under the guise of 'wider issues'. End of."

Tell your children adult relationships can be difficult at times, and therefore we are not going on holiday with Auntie. End of.

Don't give her the oxygen to criticize you further.

Giver her lots and lots of space.

Good luck.

What’s the point of this relationship? Seriously!

You’re chalk and cheese. You’ve decided you’re right for not wanting to talk. She’s decided she’s right for wanting to talk.

Neither wrong, just completely incompatible.

And now you want to holiday together??? No. Fucking. Way.

Some relationships aren’t meant to be. Just because you happen to have been born into the same family, doesn’t mean you have to have a relationship.

And you clearly don’t want one! Not a real one, in any case.

And that’s fine.

You say this... However the situation has been blown out of proportion, and she is making it very heavy. I would favour moving on and enjoying the sunshine

That all depends on how you are with her now? Rewind to before all this holiday stuff, can you hand on heart say you are exactly the same with her now as you were then... or do you intend to be?

I had a falling out with a Dfriend of over 50 years. After this incident, we had a warm conversation and were just starting to build bridges together, when she announced... 'I don't want to talk about this any more, ever again. I'm not going to talk about it'.

And she hasnt.
And our relationship is absolutely nothing like it was before and I want to clear the air but I have been ordered not to. Everything has changed. We now never speak on the phone, we only text. She is coldly polite so nothing has got better. I have extended countless olive branches but feel that only a heart to heart will solve it.

If you things too much under the carpet, they just fester and get worse.

Your complete refusal to engage with this is exactly why she's pushing for it. Can't you see this? I would love to hear what your sister has to say about this. My bet is, you don't want to meet to talk face to face because you know you will have to face some home truths about yourself. Your sister may too. But she is being brave in trying to tackle it. You're acting cowardly

If you both want to retain a good relationship, then yes both of you need to change. It's all about considerate behaviour towards each other; you can try to stop the things she finds upsetting, she can try to stop the things you find upsetting. A good compromise is the way forward here, not both of you refusing to adjust for the other.

It's up to you if you think she's worth the effort, or if she thinks you're worth the effort.