Family member wants to have a conversation with me about the “wider issues” between us, which I really don’t want to have - who has the final say on something like this

[Desolate1]

We had a big argument about what was supposed to be a joint short holiday this summer.

Long story. And slightly ridiculous were I to write it all down.

This person has repeatedly messaged me about my failings (though she also upset me and I told her this and why), and I have apologised repeatedly at this point.

We have done all of this by message, and now she is saying that unless I have a face to face conversation with her in which we discuss the “wider issues” between us, she is cancelling the holiday.

Can’t tell you how much I don’t want yet another conversation about this, or to be made to feel shit about “wider issues”.

Surely the person who doesn’t want this kind of conversation gets the final say? I feel like I will be forced at gunpoint to talk, and it’s making me feel like running a mile.

I really can’t be bothered going through life with people who say “This is me: take it or leave it” and so on, and treat the very idea that they may need to adjust the way they are behaving as if I just suggested they give me a kidney. Life is too short. In the sister’s situation here, the OP’s obstinate and detached worldview would have had me running for hills a long time ago. Kudos to the sister for still being in the game.

I agree with herculepoirot2. Life is too short, run to the hills OP. Your sister sounds needy of you to validate her own emotions. You did something wrong, you apologised. Most capable adults either accept an apology and move on or don't accept the apology. They don't continue to flog the matter and drag up past incidents as some sort of tally.

GPatz

It really depends. Sorry means you have no intention of repeating the behaviour, or at least it does when I say it. “Sorry but this is just me” isn’t sorry. It’s crap.

Well yes, but in the OP's case, she said her and her sister offended each other and that she has apologised for this offence a number of times.

In the sister’s situation here, the OP’s obstinate and detached worldview would have had me running for hills a long time ago. Kudos to the sister for still being in the game.

No one actually knows me on this thread, and there is a lot of projection going on, and now talking about me in the third person - also dodgeball.

I don’t have an obstinate and detached world view FFS (and how would anyone know on the Internet), I have a sister whom I sometimes fall out with, because we are very different, and I sometimes find her very difficult. I am not saying she doesn’t feel the same, but this is my thread and I came on here to talk about it more, and find stuff out, and a lot of people have been extremely helpful (thank you ).

Also, messages and messages back I said that I will be finding a way to talk to her.

She is not awful either, like some posters have said. I guess it is difficult for people not to project their own experiences.

Regarding parental dynamics as we were growing up - that’s interesting. I don’t remember them favouring one of us, and they probably didn’t.

I would say that my sister had more of a tendency to come forward while I held back, partly because she was filling the space verbally more. She might see it differently however.

I am sorry about the difficulties with your dp names and hope you get to a happy place in whatever way you can.

Really I was also interested in why I had such a visceral reaction against being forced to “talk”. Partly it was because I thought this talk was going to be an excuse to carry on having a go at me. Maybe I was wrong about that, and when I do talk to her about this, I will find out.

”Sorry but this is just me” is not what I said.

GPatz

I didn’t get that, to be honest. The OP seems fairly insistent that the behaviours that have upset her sister can’t be changed. It’s more a tone of regret than real apology. But hey ho.

I am still being spoken about in the 3rd person. It doesn’t matter what you got Hercule. You weren’t there.

I said that she finds me detached - that is my sister’s view. That’s not a behaviour of mine.

We are different people. She is more emotional, I am more reserved.

I am not expecting her to change the things about her which I find difficult, nor can I suddenly be a different person.

I have already said that I will be trying to talk, and there are a lot of people here who have really helped.

Now it is going to descend into people like Hercule making assumptions (hey ho ), deliberately misunderstanding, and making rude and unpleasant assumptions. Because it’s fun to do that online apparently.

I don’t need to justify any more, and there are plenty of people who have more than understood, so I would like to say thank you very much again to those people. The messages that were particularly helpful were those about how to talk to someone without being scared or anxious - what clear thinking and calming techniques to use.

I am leaving the thread now, but thanks again 👋 .

But what about what the sister has done to upset the OP?

Good luck, OP!!

I still think a gentle reminder that you don’t need to have a relationship with anyone is warranted. If you want it, great! But don’t let FOG be the reason you do.

I can see this from both sides. On the one hand, it sounds like the OP's sister is trying to overstep boundaries and that she should be more sensitive to the fact that now is probably not a good time given the OP's circumstances. Only you know how it would most likely go down OP - is it likely to turn into a one-way list of all your flaws? Or is it potentially going to be uncomfortable and difficult, but maybe also illuminating in some ways? It sounds as though you may need to protect yourself at present but perhaps not shut the door entirely on the discussion. If it really is a case of vastly different perspectives and personalities, there may not be much point, but again only you can know that.

On the other hand I do understand that it can be difficult to maintain a relationship with someone who holds back and doesn't share anything of their inner world. Not saying anyone has the right to compel that opening up, but for me, a relationship would remain at a surface level if I didn't understand their thoughts and feelings on things. I have a brother who doesn't engage about anything except banal smalltalk and I do feel a bit sad that our relationship consists only of talking about TV shows or sports. He is like that with everyone in the family and presumably has his own reasons but if I'm being honest I do see him and his partner as being a bit cold and detached. I would love to be able to be a friend to him but I accept that will likely never happen and I don't try to force anything.

It sounds like you're going through a rough time and this holiday and conversation is probably not what you need right now

Yes, hard work. Sorry, OP. You did ask.

At no point did the OP ask if she was hard work. She asked if she was unreasonable not to want to have this conversation. Others decided to attribute unpleasant character traits to her, which says more about the posters themselves than the OP.

BarrenFieldofFucks

Yes, but obviously if a yes or no answer was the only way conversations in AIBU ever developed, it wouldn’t be much of a discussion. The OP, in my opinion, is being very unreasonable not to hear her sister out properly. Yes, I am referring to her in the third person, but I fail to see how can I reply to you about this otherwise, and it is her objection to my grammatical construction of a sentence that I think makes her “hard work” as much as her attitude to her sister.

OP, to address you directly(!), thanks for your good wishes I really hope we can sort it out as well.

I think that possibly one of the reasons this conversation intimidates you (not knowing your sister who may well just be a boundary-trashing bitch!) is the simple fact you can't control it. You don't know what she'll say or where she's going with it, can't prepare and are worried you're going to be put on the spot. Do meetings without a clear agenda give you a similar anxiety?

I think you strike me as someone who likes to be able to steer events rather than just 'jump in'; are you the older sister? Was your parents' relationship a good one or was home life a bit edgy? Did you feel you had to assume a more 'responsible' role than would usually be expected of a young child?

I hope it all goes in a way that both you and your DSis can live with OP. It's hard when others demand more emotional interaction and support from us than we feel comfortable giving, and then berate us for not feeling comfortable as if that will somehow make us change into the sort of person they want us to be

Tell her there's nothing to discuss/fuck off. I can't imagine a pleasant holiday with someone like that!

An awful lot of needy, pushy whiners on this thread. People who insist on having long conversations about feelings all the time need to be told to fuck off more often: your neediness and self obsession are your problems, not mine. It's absolutely fine to be reserved, and other people do not have a right to enforce 'openness' by which they mean them listing all your faults and demanding you account for yourself.

ReanimatedSGB

OR there are an awful lot of egos on this thread: people who insist that their self-image must be preserved at all costs, without allowance for the emotional needs of others relating to things they chose to do or to say, that hurt said others.

Cancel holiday, your relationship has broken down for the time being.

Can I ask a really general question to those in the 'fuck off needy fuckers' camp - what is the point of relationships with others if they are so limited? If you don't want to know about them and don't want them to know about you? Why have for example a partner instead of a housemate? Why spend any time with a sister if their personality doesn't appeal to you and you wouldn't if they were not your sister? I feel like if someone's automatic response to an overture to emotional intimacy is to haul up the barricades and say "what do you want from me and how dare you want it" then why would you engage with others at all?

I kind of feel it's a bit like all the introvert memes that went around for a while:

"don't exclude me just because I'm an introvert, I want to spend time with other people, but only exactly when I choose doing only the activities I particularly like and for exactly as long as I want and on exactly my terms, so get ready for a ton of rejection whenever your overtures don't happen to appeal to me for whatever reason, don't expect any explanation for my rejection in that situation because I'm telling you now that THIS IS HOW I AM forever, but don't stop making overtures regularly even though I reject most of them because that's discrimination and meeeeean."

What about compromise??? What about meeting people half way?

Something I realise about my next to last post is that it contains 5 questions. Each of those questions if directed to me I would feel as an exciting invitation to get real with somebody; but I'm increasingly aware lots of people on here and in life would see them as an escalating attack.

Namestheyareachangin

No, no, Names. There must never be compromise. That’s allowing other people to breach your boooundaries. Just as acknowledging their feelings is validating them.

Sorry, am being a bit harsh here. I think MN has a lot of contributors who are fragile. Life has given them a bit of a battering and withdrawing from others emotionally feels like the only thing they can do. It’s sad, and I doubt it helps in the long run, but I suppose it’s inevitable.