Family member wants to have a conversation with me about the “wider issues” between us, which I really don’t want to have - who has the final say on something like this

[Desolate1]

We had a big argument about what was supposed to be a joint short holiday this summer.

Long story. And slightly ridiculous were I to write it all down.

This person has repeatedly messaged me about my failings (though she also upset me and I told her this and why), and I have apologised repeatedly at this point.

We have done all of this by message, and now she is saying that unless I have a face to face conversation with her in which we discuss the “wider issues” between us, she is cancelling the holiday.

Can’t tell you how much I don’t want yet another conversation about this, or to be made to feel shit about “wider issues”.

Surely the person who doesn’t want this kind of conversation gets the final say? I feel like I will be forced at gunpoint to talk, and it’s making me feel like running a mile.

Relationships where someone thinks its their job to explain the defects in someone else's character or personality to them give me the heebie-jeebies. The listener needs to get out, block all contact, and spend time with people who make them happy.

OP you sound like you are “strong” and put up walls. Maybe being a bit more vulnerable would help both of you?

By the same token why can't her sister be gentler and respect the fact that not everyone wants to show vulnerability? Why does OP have to lay herself bare to pacify her sister who refuses to accept that OP has boundaries?

Forcing someone to have a heart-to-heart and share their feelings when they don't want to, so that you can pick holes in their character and analyse what you think they need to do to improve, is akin to pinning a fly under a microscope and watching it squirm while you pull the wings off. Needlessly cruel, completely counter-productive and only done to make the person in control feel better about themselves.

I think I am going to email and say that I am happy to meet up, but please can we not endlessly rehash the same things, and can I get a rough idea of what she wants to talk about.

I don't think this will do any good with a personality type like your sister (based on your description). She'll just continue to play mind games by refusing to tell you in advance what's up, and she will endlessly rehash things. That's her modus operandi

She is a person for whom this meme was invented....

You really do need to give zero fucks, honestly you'll feel liberated and she'll lose her hold on you. Just detach! And definitely back out of the holiday and go elsewhere with your DC.

Also this The OP's sister sounds like you, someone who wants to relentlessly pick over and over at something until you wear down the other person into acceding and accepting your view. To me, that is controlling and bullying you cannot accept that a person is different you must make them conform to your beliefs.. Dodgeball you don't get be the decision maker as to whether someone needs to 'self evaluate and grow' because that sounds as if the only accepted growth would be to change to your way of thinking.

museumum OP you sound like you are “strong” and put up walls. Maybe being a bit more vulnerable would help both of you?

Why? In what possible way could that help the OP?

Do you really think that people must show a vulnerability, change the way they deal with their emotions purely to make someone else feel better? That's just making them a foil to the other person's ego.

OP, my DH never wants to discuss things between us cos he is so proud and stubborn. It drives me mad and makes me resentful towards him. It's a very unpleasant feature of his personality.

She'll get you into a room and hit you with all her pent up bile and opinions on you and your life
This!!

I refused to give my narc the pleasure of my company for this very reason....so she sent me a fb message - printed out it was one and a half sides of A4 paper -detailing how i had no life (which she showed no interest in), lived in a shitty little flat (my first home) in a shitty little town (hometown - despite my area being more 'upmarket') and how my friends were all losers with nothing going for them (who she's never met or knew anything about).
Then she wonders why i don't want anything to do with her

In reply to both above I said what I did because I am also strong and independent I don’t talk emotions and can seem cold and aloof.
But I make an effort with my parents, my husband and I hope I will with my dcs when they’re older to let them in a bit, to soften my walls and show some of my feelings even if it makes me uncomfortable because it helps to cement those bonds with people I love. I don’t have a sister but if I did I would try also to “let her in”.

Some people just don't feel comfortable having a heart to heart. That's just the way it is and nothing to be criticised for. Horses for courses and all that! It sounds as though you wouldn't enjoy the holiday anyway. It's been spoilt now. Just cancel it.

My Sister and I are very different..Not really close ( though I suspect she thinks differently)

We have been on holiday together though I think we are so different I avoid them now..

My sister I think could have a much happier life but I have had to given up as she doesn't listen to me. so I gave up trying.

The issue for me if you don't want to have a chat going on holiday will be far worse.. Hours and hours you will spend with her.

I don’t have a sister but if I did I would try also to “let her in”.

Even if you were feeling very sensitive and she knew this yet continued to pick at you and psychoanalyse you and refused to leave you alone?

Showing some vulnerability is fine when there is give and take. Where is the 'give' from the OP's sister in this?

she sounds domineering and controlling, stop apologizing to her and explaining yourself to her, when you do this you are prostrating yourself before her (and she clearly enjoys it)
stop behaving as if you are her servant

also never give in to threats, 'if you dont do as I say 'X' will happen'
just shrug it off, she's jerking you around

OP you sound like you are “strong” and put up walls. Maybe being a bit more vulnerable would help both of you?

Walls are good. The higher the better. People like the OPs sister need thick concrete ones, it's the only way to survive. Never ever show a chink of vulnerability, it will give them license to keep chipping away.

Save being the better person for someone with whom you enjoy trust and who 'has your back'.

Couldn't agree more Daisychaon01 Some people get their self-esteem from keeping others vulnerable. Unless you've lived close to it it's hard to imagine the dynamic. Can take decades to see it for what it is, then allow yourself to put up healthy barriers

OP, I ask this genuinely. Why would you even consider going on holiday with someone who you have so many problems with. Holidays with very close friends and loved ones can be a strain, but in this case, wouldn't it be a disaster waiting to happen.

To be honest OP your thread is doing my head in because I think I am your sister but I don't think I'm horrible or have the evil intentions to "kick people when they're down" or "make them vulnerable" that others are ascribing to her here...

I have a relationship like you describe with my DP and wonder at least once a week if I should leave him. I love him; but I have no idea about his inner world whatsoever, no evidence that he has any feelings for me at all or indeed any emotions beyond a sort of simmering low level frustration that occasionally bursts out in anger. He put and out will NEVER talk about his thoughts and feelings, treats any invitation or entreaty to do so like an attack to be fought off.

It makes me feel shut out and rejected and suspect that he has a hideous opinion of me and mistrusts me and assumes the worst of intentions.

I'm not trying to get him to talk to me to use it against him, I'm trying to UNDERSTAND him. I daresay plenty on here will say "why do you need to understand him?" just to be contrary. But I do. I have a huge inner world, I know most people do. Why wouldn't you want to share that with someone you love and trust? And why would you make a relationship with someone you don't love and trust?

Is it possible because you had an adversarial relationship as children you still approach interactions with her with the idea she's trying to "catch you out" or get one over on you? Is she more verbally agile than you and you find this puts you on the back foot in conversation? Is it even slightly possible the reason she has devoted so much mental energy to this "storm in a teacup" is because you matter hugely to her, and she wants to understand you better, for you to understand her better and to be genuinely close to you? And is that just a red line for you in that you want and always will want to keep her at arm's length because you don't like or trust her?

If so I think you need to be honest with her. Just be straight. Tell her that you love her because she's your sister (if indeed you do) but she is not the kind of person you would ever have chosen to be friends with, you don't have strong feelings for her and you do not want to be any closer to her than you are now. Just tell her that. It will hurt her massively but tbh either she is this evil Machiavellian bitch described by PPs above or she is desperately trying to reach you and is wasting her time imagining she just needs to get past your walls and will find love, when actually all there is is weary and incurious indifference. Either way the response above delivers a better outcome than for you to keep pushing her back where you want her and where she is clearly miserable being, and her to keep making assaults on your emotional battlements that you find invasive and borderline abusive. Just stop this charade of a relationship.

Im sure I’ve read a very similar post a while back

It’s really odd on here at the moment, seeming lots of old posts being duplicated

Just as an example the thing where she has exhaustively detailed how she feels about this holiday squabble - if I tried to explain to my partner how a disagreement had made me feel and he replied with a bland "I'm sorry you feel that way, I'm sorry I upset you" - yes fine thanks but WHY were you doing the things you were doing, what were your motivations, help me understand this event from your perspective because that will make me feel less like you either were trying to hurt me or just didn't care if you did or not! Just "ok sorry" feels lazy and indifferent and as if you just can't be arsed or don't have any desire to share anything of yourself with me. I don't want to tell you you were wrong; I want to understand why you thought it was right because that will help me accept and move on. An brief formulaic apology is an easy way out of difficult feelings, like a toddler who has learnt the word "sorry" gets the out of trouble but still can't rationalise why they bit so and so or why that was wrong.

You may well be right about the sister's motivations names but that doesn't mean the OP is lazy. It just means that she and her sister are very different personalities and want different things from the relationship.

I am more like the OP myself, don't talk about feelings much, not physically demonstrative. I show my love by doing things with or for my family members. Everybody is different.

I guess I am a bit like your husband, Names. I can understand that for your personality type it must get very frustrating, but I find it very intrusive when people want to know all about my inner feelings. They are private and for me alone, and it would annoy me that someone felt that they had a right to know these things about me. It would also annoy me that they saw it as a character flaw that needed to be worked on that I wasn't like them. I might be tempted to think it was a character flaw that they needed to work on that they felt the need to push for insight into my private feelings.

I hate to say it Names but your relationship sounds like being in a prison, such hard work. I have experienced similar in the dim and distant past. I can honestly say, the best and only thing to do is walk away and be with someone with whom you enjoy emotional compatibility.

Then it's so easy, so effortless, warm and fulfilling, you never need to worry about what they are thinking, it won't matter because you will already know.

I too am like the op, I declined a similar meeting as I suspected a face to face meeting was born out of anger, my sister admitted later this was the case. i felt it was just another opportunity to have a pop at me. I do love my sister, she is kind, funny and incredibly generous just not towards me. I don't trust her therefore our relationship was always fragile and such probing and discussions about how I made her feel were not beneficial to building a good relationship.

namechange I think you possibly could be the sister, I found both of your posts quite intense and a bit of an stealth boast of asking if the issue is the sister is more verbally agile than you sometimes people don't have any deep rooted reasons that need psych analysed for behaviour or being annoyed, they just are!!