First Date, who pays?

[DreamsOfDownUnder]

So I'm going on a first date on Sunday evening for some food and drinks.

I'm planning on going dutch... I think?

What are people's opinion, man/woman pays/go dutch or do we pay for what we've had.. It's been a while since I've been one!

but no woman on this thread has

I’m going to disabuse you of that theory. I’m afraid I paid for the first date with my ex-husband

but all the men I dated actually wanted to pay and my self-confidence was never so brittle that I automatically interpreted this as belittling or as an assault on my independence. I could accept the gesture for what it was - no need to be up in arms. If I paid for something, they would generally feel the need to “up the ante” by then paying for something else.

Perhaps you chose men whose self-confidence was so brittle that they automatically interpreted you paying as belittling and as an assault on their independence? What was wrong with them that they were unable to 'accept the gesture for what it was'?

See, it's interesting when you flip sexes.

@Dateluv

As it happens, l went on a first date with a single parent of two. The lady was vibrant and beautiful. Even better we could converse between us and laugh our heads off.

However, when the cheque came. The total amount was about £65. Being a gentleman l ended paying £40. Unfortunately my date didn't seem pleased and she complained. This even made the second date impossible due to such behaviour...

PMSL! this is priceless. 😂 As a pp said, she dodged a bullet! What scares me is that I am pretty sure this is a serious post!!!

@Kennehora

I had no idea there were still so many entitled, demanding princesses.

Oh you would be surprised.

You probably have no idea how many entitled, lazy, grabby, bone-idle misogynistic Neanderthal MEN there are, who never lift a finger in the house, and expect women to do everything for them (including all the childcare) either!

Sure, some women like/expect a man to pay on the first date (that he has usually asked her on,) but then many men expect women to do every fucking thing else, once he has her ensnared.

Of course there are the usual gobsmacked and 'disgusted at the these grabby women' type posts, but these are almost ALWAYS by women who are perpetually single .. Funny that. 🤔

Most women aren't gold diggers...unless you are a 95 year old billionaire with multiple mansions and yachts, you really don't need to trouble yourself worrying about gold diggers... honestly.

Exactly this! ^ And as someone said earlier, these men who say 'I won't pay on a first date, because I don't like gold diggers' are nothing but mean-spirited tightwads who simply don't want to share ANYthing with any woman, or pay for anything for her, and they are definitely the type to avoid. And again, you will find this type of man perpetually single.

There are very few decent single men over 35/40 on the market, and I feel very sorry for ANY woman who is on the lookout to settle down at that age. I have been with DH for a quarter century (and am middle aged,) and if we split (or he died,) I would never bother again, as I couldn't tolerate the clowns and fools and utter morons who I would have to tolerate to try and find another man. Fuck that.

As @formerbabe said, women don't think a man should pay on a first date (that he probably asked her on,) because she is grabby and entitled. She is not THAT desperate for a free glass of wine or two. She is testing the waters to see if he is a mean-spirited tightwad who will keep her in penury if they get married/have children.

And a man who sits there on a first date (that, as I said, he probably asked HER on,) calculating every penny that has been spent on the date (to make sure SHE pays her share!) is definitely one to avoid.

Women need to know if a prospective partner is a tight git, and the first date is a very good indicator. As I (and some others have said,) women don't expect him to always pay (and to pay for everything thereafter.) But to be asked on a first date, and then have him make you pay your share, is very offputting, and there would be no second date!

And yeah, whether you like it or not, women are way more vulnerable financially once they are married and have children, so why the hell WOULDN'T they try to make sure a man isn't a tight cunt? Who wants to settle down with a man who calculates everything his girlfriend (or wife) OWES him after a night out... cringe

Some woman have very low standards. Some of us are a bit more fussy about the man we choose; and a tight git is someone that can fuck right off. He is not worthy of our time...

As I (and some others have said,) if you think a man expecting a woman to pay on a first date is doing it because of equal rights and because he respects you as a woman, you are utterly, utterly deluded!!! He is just a tight arsed git!

As you were. I'm off out to the beach for the day (with DH!) Have a good day.

The sad little dig at @Bluntness100 and the attempt to imply that she is too unattractive

Fortunately I'm very confident about my looks and my relationship so it just amused me. Not sure it would have the same impact on someone who wasn't. Just kinda sad really. To have a shot at someone's looks and imply you need to be attractive and men will want to pay for you. Shameful really that that's what it comes down to for some women.

And lol at my husband "makes " me split. My husband has never made me do anything in my life. I do what I want. What I think is right. Weve been together a very long time so who pays is now irrelevant, generally it's from the joint account. And he never "made" me split even before then, he always offered and would have been more than happy to pay.

I do find it odd that some women would only pay if they are "made" to and can't fathom the concept of a woman who actually has enough self respect, disposable income, and wishes to pay.

As a pp said, A woman's value is demonstrated in many ways. From how she values herself, to how potential partners value her. Paying for her company should never be a way to demonstrate that.

Great post crazyasafox!

Some of us are a bit more fussy about the man we choose

And some of you have a massive superiority complex

Thank goodness you're around to fly the flag for womanhood, eh?

Now my partner and I keep our salaries separate but have a joint account that covers things like treats, holidays, household expenses... so going Dutch every time- not sure of your circumstances but if the scenario of a mat leave were to arise, with such a rigid 50/50 what would happen to the bills with one less salary? Is the woman supposed to use all her personal savings to make up her shortfall in the name of equality?*

This is a bit off topic to the original post discussing first dates but I shall humour you.

We aren't married and have no children together. He owns the house. I pay half of household bills but not the mortgage.
We have discussed children and agreed we would marry before children. He has an awful lot in savings...I have a bit. If children arise then we would split the bills to a way that we are both happy with. Which would obviously change between full salary, maternity leave, nursery costs. We are both comfortably off and either one of us could more than cover the household bills on just one of our salaries. He has never asked for a penny in contribution. I have insisted. The costs of my child from a previous relationship are split between us already. Although I pay childcare (child is 9 so minimal) as I can claim childcare vouchers and he can't. He pays his mortgage as it's in his name and not mine, he also pays for any major household works that would add avalue. we split furnishings and decorating. When we move we will buy together, him owning a bigger share due to the equity he has already accumulated. Most importantly we are both happy with this agreement. Isn't that what equality is about? both parties feeling like their arrangement is fair?

crazyasafox
Or I dunno maybe by seeing the woman as a equal and letting them pay half is an indicator they won’t expecting that woman to jack in their job when they have kids and do all the domestic work.
I wouldn’t date any man who thought I couldn’t provide for myself.
I don’t need looking after thanks, I’m a grown up.

Fwiw I’ve been with DH for 20 years and never had joint finances.
We’ve always paid for stuff 50/50 more or less.
Pre children I earned a lot more than him so would pay for holidays and treats. Post children I only earn slightly more than him so everything is split equally. That doesn’t mean we haggle over every penny just that if I pay for takeaway one day, he’ll by the cinema tickets the next etc. We don’t keep a formal record obviously but i think it all balances out in the end.

She is testing the waters to see if he is a mean-spirited tightwad who will keep her in penury if they get married/have children

Oh my. You do understand women can have kids and be financially self suffient right?

And you also understand this is not about a man forcing a woman to pay" it's about women wishing to? That the woman makes the decision ?

Some of these posts are deeply concerning and the reason so many women end up in horrible relationships, as they start off from the beginning showing they don't see themselves as equal. They are the little woman, happy to wash his pants and cook his dinner, if only he would be so kind as to put a roof over her head.

Good god no. Get some self respect. Some financial independence.

Yy, gamerwidow.

Fortunately it is 2019, and women ask men on dates, may out-earn them, and remain economically equal while being married and having children, rather than whatever 'barefoot and pregnant at the kitchen sink hinting about the housekeeping money' trip you're on, *crazy^.

Bluntness - if it makes you feel better to think in extreme stereotypes about women who allow men to pay for them as gold-diggers, less adult than you or lacking in self-respect, then you carry on, but I can assure you that reducing everything to extremes just means you’re missing the point.

And as someone said earlier, these men who say 'I won't pay on a first date, because I don't like gold diggers' are nothing but mean-spirited tightwads who simply don't want to share ANYthing with any woman, or pay for anything for her, and they are definitely the type to avoid. And again, you will find this type of man perpetually single.

This is hilarious. Swap "man" for woman in the above statement. Do you think that's true? If not why not?

All of those things you think about a man if he doesn't pay on the first date are you not worried that he doesn't think the exact same about you?

I see it as @Dateluv dodged a bullet. I think him paying £40 was a nice thing to do and his date was being grabby and really rude to be unhappy with it.

It's different when you are in a relationship and I'd happily treat someone or happily be treated by someone but for a first date I would find it odd not to go Dutch. It seems so old fashioned to think it seems gentlemanly or manly for the 'man' to pay. If one of you were really skint then maybe the other could pay then but generally everyone should just pay for themselves. I'd find the assumption that a 'man' should pay baffling to be honest and I'm in my 50's so not an age issue.

I know my adult kids (boys and girls) think the same.

“All of those things you think about a man if he doesn't pay on the first date are you not worried that he doesn't think the exact same about you?”

No.

You just don’t understand Decimposing. You can’t see beyond the money.

In fairness, Pa1oma, I remember your posts from other threads, and I think it's fair to say that you have an extremely reactionary position on marriage, finances and the relationship between men and women, anyway, so maybe this is colouring your perspective.

Or I dunno maybe by seeing the woman as a equal and letting them pay half is an indicator they won’t expecting that woman to jack in their job when they have kids and do all the domestic work

nope far better a man who expects you to push out a kid and then jump straight back into work to pay your share!!! Cant have a lazy, sponging SAHM now.- dont let a man do this to you and dress it up as feminism

“Reactionary?”

I’ve never been called that in my life . That’s a first.

nope far better a man who expects you to push out a kid and then jump straight back into work to pay your share!!! Cant have a lazy, sponging SAHM now.- dont let a man do this to you and dress it up as feminism

Exactly 😂 your job is to pay half the bills after having kids = being equal?

I'm a man and I've only really been on one first date where I didn't know the woman before hand. I think I bought three rounds of drinks, then she suggested we bought wine on the way back to her place, which I bought. Never so much as a suggestion from her that she would get the next one.

I think I would always offer to pay, not because I think its right, but because I'm usually quite generous, and even if i get tight vibes, I'm not throwing away all this effort in getting a date just because of that. In this instance I decided it was worth it if I got laid, but mental note: red flag. She was probably a bit out of my league though, so I guess I was just paying to have a woman that lots of men want or something horribly transactional that other posters were talking about.

Another girl, who I had a first date with (although I'd hung out with her for a few days prior) came from Argentina, and as a result of her job and the exchange rate, had very little money. She positively refused to be paid for. It wasn't about not wanting me to expect anything, it wasn't that I made her (I had to fight tooth and nail to pay for even my fair share, and I had to fight even harder to pay more than my 'fair' share).

If it weren't for the fact that I knew she couldn't afford to spend a ton, then she would have won as she very determined. Why was she so insistent on paying, and would only let you pay if you promised to let her get something later? Simple, because she was very generous.

She didn't see herself as a princess who I was lucky to have, she didn't think it was the boys job only to be generous or even a 'gent'. She was an independent woman who would pay when going out with her friends, and didn't see me any differently, just because I'm a man.

Interestingly, my mum who is very much the mumsnet type, and firmly believes men should pay, absolutely adored her. Probably because she paid the tab on the cream tea for four people, when everyone at the table thought she had just nipped to the loo.

So yes, generosity is attractive, and the women here stating that are right. But i promise its attractive to both genders.

Flanner - I dint think anyone in here has said they wouldn’t offer to pay though (have they)?

As I said, I wouldn’t even waste a man’s time, let alone his money if I wasn’t interested.

What I do object to though, is the kind of supercilious, priggish attitude on here that if you do allow a man to pay for you then you are effectively some kind of Anna-Nicole Smith or whatever her name was (the one who dated the 90-year old billionaire).

Why does MN always need to resort to extremes?

A woman who insists in paying her way is not necessarily a ball-busting feminist, is she? Just as a woman who doesn’t feel demeaned by letting a man get the bill is not necessarily an air-head with no self-respect; or in need of a free anything.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers @Hithere12

Will you stop with the SAHM, maternity leave bullshit.

We're talking about DATING here, where 2 equals meet up to see if they like each other.

FFS.

I think I bought three rounds of drinks, then she suggested we bought wine on the way back to her place, which I bought. Never so much as a suggestion from her that she would get the next one

I’m cringing so hard

nope far better a man who expects you to push out a kid and then jump straight back into work to pay your share!!! Cant have a lazy, sponging SAHM now.- dont let a man do this to you and dress it up as feminism

Yes indeed. It’s well known that going Dutch or indeed paying for the first date if you’re a woman immediately and irrevocably sets out your financial dealings for the entirety of your life.

Will you stop with the SAHM, maternity leave bullshit

We're talking about DATING here, where 2 equals meet up to see if they like each other

Erm that’s what bluntness etc were talking about. So we were just replying to them?