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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

dp wants a pre-nup and i feel like shit

598 replies

lanaturnerssmile · 22/05/2019 21:56

DP told me today “we need to sort out our finances with the solicitors”. He means some sort of pre-nup. Its 8 weeks to our wedding.
We have been together for 13 years and have 3 dc’s together.
He has £££ in assets after investing his money very well. He stands to make a lot of money if things continue as they are. I have a part-time job that pays peanuts (i dont need to work i chose to out of boredom when kids started school) after being a SAHM for years and have nothing to my name. We haven’t got married before now because he’s always said he doesn’t have the spare cash and he wants us to have a proper wedding. Also neither of us were that bothered, but then i started realising it was putting me in a very precarious situation should something happen to him.
Ive been so happy planning the wedding and now i just feel so deflated. i feel like he just wants to protect himself. i dont even know how much he has - how do i know he’ll tell the truth about his assets?
I said “what if i say im not signing anything?” and he said “we’ll get something drawn up and then discuss it”. I dont think he’ll marry me unless i sign something. Im completely ignorant when it comes to legal/financial matters and i dont want to sign something that seems like a good deal and then end up getting shafted (i would obvs have an independent solicitor to try and stop that happening).
For the record i love him very much and i know he loves me. We have a great relationship. Ive been feeling so smug though about how happy we are after being together so long, still really fancy one another and all that. Now i feel like my bubble has completely burst. I feel like its changed my opinion of him in a negative way. It feels so icky.
Anyone have any experience of this?

OP posts:
croprotationinthe13thcentury · 22/05/2019 23:22

Just keep stalling and call his bluff. He will back down eventually.

desperatesux · 22/05/2019 23:23

Don't get legal advice as one poster suggested. Also with a pre nup and married you are in a far better position than not married without one !

Also in Ireland what are termed "fuck off" pre nups where one party is effectively screwed don't hold up in court. For the court to take them into account they have to be fair.
I would marry him and then see if you want to stay with such a greedy entitled arsehole. At least in Ireland co habiting couples have protection, they don't in the UK so you absolutely need to be married

lifebegins50 · 22/05/2019 23:23

Op, if you marry you will have better protection than you do today and in the event of divorce your previous 13 years and DC are relevant.

The emotional reaction for you is because it feels as if he is putting money ahead of commitment, he may also feel you are putting money ahead of commitment.

See what he is proposing, it might actually help you know what financial position he is in. Go ahead with the marriage as otherwise you are much more vulnerable. He may feel your willingness to sign an agreement is reassurance enough.

The reality of divorce is that the DC would have housing needs and your reduced income would be relevant so this would trump any pre nup. Please go ahead with the wedding!

Coronapop · 22/05/2019 23:27

In your position it would be unwise to sign any agreement. Very odd that he does not recognise that the assets are family assets and you and DCs are entitled to your share. Just say no to signing.

FagashJackie · 22/05/2019 23:31

I can understand how hurtful this would be. I wouldn't sign it.

klendraa · 22/05/2019 23:43

Why is the suggestion of a prenup “hurtful”?

It can protect both of you.

needmorespace · 22/05/2019 23:43

If they hadn't of married, she would have got half and more, because legally you have the same rights when there is children involved. If she had no pre-nup, she would have got half and more

I can only assume that your friend is not in the UK? Because if you are not married, you certainly do not have the same rights as a married woman regardless of how many children are involved.

BrienneofTarthILoveYou · 22/05/2019 23:45

Agree with the others - either stall & don't sign or sign as close to the wedding as possible with no legal advice to ensure it can later be argued you were forced to sign under duress & without proper legal advice.

So sorry though Op, it's shit he's dropped this on you given how long you've been together & have 3 children.

ScottishDoll · 22/05/2019 23:50

What a total shit.

I can't understand how you have no idea what the financial position is after 13 years. How have you managed to discuss household budget with no idea of income? Why are you and he still talking about his money instead of our money? Are you even on the house deeds?

Have you seen any paperwork yet? If he is running his own business it is easy enough to swap salary for dividends and so on to evade percentage payments but also more likely he can run up debts. Does he have business partners? Is he gambling?

Don't marry someone who hasn't opened the books to you, that's really shifty. Get good legal advice and insist on full disclosure, credit reports etc you may be signing up to half a truckload of debt for all you know.

Presumably you decided to go ahead with this wedding some time ago so he has been preparing and planning for a while. Get creative with the investigative work.

largecoffeeplease · 22/05/2019 23:51

I'm genuinely baffled by how harsh everyone is being here but I guess I'm in the minority. We have a prenup and it is very much there to protect both of us in case of divorce and DH is the one with the assets. It's there to prevent me potentially being able to damage any of his business finances which makes sense because he has business partners and employers.
Although that might not apply in your situation.

JonestheMail · 22/05/2019 23:52

Cold hearted fucker isn't he? It's clear what value he places on his family. Marriage is definitely your best protection.

I agree with those saying see if you can kick the prenup down the line without having to sign.

If you do have to sign I also agree try and do it without taking legal advice and make sure that some contemporaneous emails or texts say something along the lines of "darling of course I will sign anything you want because I love you and I trust that you will continue to look after me and the DC as you have always done in view of our 13 wonderful years and 3DC together. As you know, I don't really understand all this financial stuff so am happy to be guided by you". This goes both to your understanding of what you are signing and your expectations. The "as you have always done" is very important because it establishes the standard of living you are entitled to.

If you have to sign a prenup try and apply it ONLY to assets he had before you were together. Everything since is family assets and should be 50:50.

It is correct that once you are married the courts will take your 13 years together into account.

It is also correct that the court will look at needs at the time of divorce but they also try and uphold contracts agreed between the parties, especially those with legal advice, so you cannot rely on them ignoring a prenup.

ImNotNigel · 23/05/2019 00:07

There is nothing wrong with him being sensible with his assets, and what he has worked for. I am pretty certain if you were him, you'd want the same

The most sensible thing is to actually discuss and come to a fair arrangement that includes the children

He is very much entitled to financial stability and to cover himself, just as you would want to be if this was all your money

I’m a bit confused by this comment. Because the OP has worked for the money - she has given up her career to raise his 3 children and provide domestic services for 13 years.

Runbikeswim · 23/05/2019 00:08

I'm perhaps missing the point of the thread but lots of people here talking about the 'sacrifice' involved in giving up paid work to look after kids but it's actually lifestyle choice - for the wealthy - and probably very nice too. I'm sure the OP and the DP have benefited so it's not just him benefiting.

bluebell34567 · 23/05/2019 00:10

op, why dont you know how much he has?
arent you supposed to know?

bridgetreilly · 23/05/2019 00:21

It sounds like there are substantial assets involved, in which case, a pre-nup is not necessarily a bad idea per se.

However his timing is spectacularly bad, as is the way he brought it up without discussing why he thinks it's a good idea or giving you time to think about it. I don't think you're unreasonable to feel upset, OP, but I also think you probably need to get past that and start making some decisions about how to proceed.

For what it's worth, I would let him get a lawyer to draw up a possible prenup, get independent legal advice about it, and then decide whether or not to sign. You don't have to unless you want to. But I would not make that decision without getting good legal advice about it. By which I mean, not Lawyers of Mumsnet R Us.

Fiveredbricks · 23/05/2019 00:30

"We have a great relationship."

No, you do not. After over a decade and you don't know how much money your dp has? You have kids with him. Why don't you know this?

Fiveredbricks · 23/05/2019 00:32

Erm no @Runbikeswim what a silly thing to say.

Plenty of women in couples can't afford to go back to work as childcare is far too expensive until 3yrs old. You'll find it's mostly higher earners that go back to work before then. Those of us on less than 20k a year cannot afford to work without making a loss or barely breaking even.

timeisnotaline · 23/05/2019 00:45

We know a bit oshe
We don't know what the assets are of if the OP has actually done anything to help them increase in value in the time they've been together.
We know they are many times annual cost of living, the op says 50% of them would be far more than school fees etc. We know the op has been home with 3 children so she has enabled him to earn and invest. That’s a contribution, when you’re married it’s a legally recognised contribution.

We don't know how many children there are or how old they are.
We know there are 3 and they are all at least at school. Presumably they were conceived the usual way so are less than 13 as this is how long they have been together. Perhaps you didn’t read the op?

We don't even know what he'd like to include in his pre-nup.
We know he’s said she shouldn’t get half his assets. That’s an extremely good indication that it’s not great.

I hope you enjoyed my little reading comprehension aid.

Qweenbee · 23/05/2019 00:58

I can understand him protecting his assets from before the relationship. Go with that angle but point out that anything accumulated since is both of yours, accumulated together.

DeeCeeCherry · 23/05/2019 01:07

Are pre-nups even legally binding in the UK? I very much doubt it. So he's talking shit. I'd quietly get legal advice tho in case the day comes when he tries to hide his monetary assets. I've seen online loads of men Whinging about having to share/fearful of women ripping them off - so, they won't marry. This is a strange one as your man does want to marry you. Who knows what goes on in their minds

CatAndHisKit · 23/05/2019 01:25

Runbike is right as in this situation it asn't the case that Op didn't go back to work to save money/due to unaffordacle childcare but because she didn't have to - does part time work because she wantsw to, not to be bored.

In the UK (and may other coutries) there is no automatic 50:50 split, depends on the size of assets and circs. And that's reasonable when the assets are very big and earned by one party. Many women stay at home as a mum but very few of those husbands manage to earn huge amounts of money - so it's the husband's achievemwent if he does.

From that point of view, he is OBLIGED to provide for dc and to keep wife's income as it was during marriage (equal to her average expenditure during marriage - spent on herself and also share of the household costs), and may well be required to either buy her and dc a house or leave the existing house to them if he's wealthy.

Prenups are NOT done with the aim to leave a partner penniless - it's to ring-fence the exrta assets that they may clain but don't 'need' - again needs aer based on what the partner is used to during the marriage so very confortab;e in these case.

Consider a scenario - reverse if you like - where a woman is the earner and husband stays with 3 kids (may or may not also have help from au pair / cleaners). Husband has no assets of his own. The woman is a maverick investor or say, an inventor, and build up a lot of assets, say a few millions (that's what OP's partner sounds like) . Then imagine they get married and then he wants to split up afetr several years or when DC grow up because he's met someone else! Or indeed he becomes a bad husband and she wants to leave. Does he deserve 50:50 of her millions? Of course not! The law (and I thikn it's fair) will already give him a very generous allowance based on his expenses during marriage, but an agreement is to prevent him going greedily for millions, way above his needs. I've already seen a very successful woman on MN saying she won't get married fir this reason as she's the wealthy one.

Yes, it's never nice to know that your partner thinks you might leave him or that he may leave, but really it's life and it happens. The fact hat he's marrying is already more than many wealthy people do (look at Mick Jagger, for one, even in his old age!). He knows that by marrying she's going to be finasncially protexcted for life and entitled to his pension unless she re-marries. It's purely to ring fence his future extra millions if things go sour. But yes, after 13yrs it'd be nice if he was a less bothered or cautious.

BrendasUmbrella · 23/05/2019 01:28

Pre-nups may not be legally binding in the UK but they are taken into consideration, they aren't disregarded.

Let him draw it up, then take it to an independent lawyer. Not that I think you would anyway, but don't sign it the minute he presents it to you. But yes, as a wife you would likely have more rights, even with a poor pre-nup. I think the dicey thing is that the contents could show you how much he values you as a life partner right before your wedding. If the subtext of the document is "I must protect myself from this grasping woman!" it's not the best start to the marriage.

Oshe · 23/05/2019 02:02

@timeisnotaline

We know they are many times annual cost of living, the op says 50% of them would be far more than school fees etc. We know the op has been home with 3 children so she has enabled him to earn and invest. That’s a contribution, when you’re married it’s a legally recognised contribution.

'Many times the annual cost of living' means nothing. It could be anything from the low-mid six figures to millions. School fees can range from a couple thousand per term to 30k annually for the bigger names.

We don't know what the assets are so we have no idea that the OP staying at home enabled him to do anything. The pre-relationship assets could be things that have simply appreciated in value over time with not much effort from his part and therefore the OP staying at home won't have made any difference. Or maybe he came into the relationship with a small business that he's managed to turn into a big success because the OP has been at home, allowing him to focus on his work. In which case the OP has a right to feel aggrieved.

We know there are 3 and they are all at least at school. Presumably they were conceived the usual way so are less than 13 as this is how long they have been together. Perhaps you didn’t read the op properly.

'Less than 13' is not an age. The ages of the children are relevant because the amount of time the OP has actually spent at home with them is relevant.

We know he’s said she shouldn’t get half his assets. That’s an extremely good indication that it’s not great.

The OP's non-financial contribution should definitely be recognised and her years out of the workforce and loss in earning potential/pension should be taken into account when negotiating the financial agreement. But considering he had the assets before their relationship and we don't know how much the assets are worth, I don't think anyone can categorically say that anything other than 50% is unfair.

The OP is in a very vulnerable financial position at the moment. I don't think the people racing to tell her that her partner is a selfish bastard based on very little information and encouraging her to refuse to even discuss it with him have thought (or care) about how this advice may well leave her up shit creek.

managedmis · 23/05/2019 02:17

Said it before and I'll say it again, these men and the shit they fucking pull!

Make sure the prenup is 50/50 of assets gained PRIOR to marriage, sign it, marry hm, divorce his frigging shifty, money obsessed ass.

13 fucking years?

I'm not surprised he had time to 'invest wisely'

These men want their cake and to eat it.

managedmis · 23/05/2019 02:19

I'm surprised he's actually even prepared to get married.

Is there a motive behind that move too?

Because it actually doesn't benefit him if you marry him and sign the prenup. He's worse off. Which I'm sure he is aware of.

🤔

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