dp wants a pre-nup and i feel like shit

[lanaturnerssmile]

DP told me today “we need to sort out our finances with the solicitors”. He means some sort of pre-nup. Its 8 weeks to our wedding.
We have been together for 13 years and have 3 dc’s together.
He has £££ in assets after investing his money very well. He stands to make a lot of money if things continue as they are. I have a part-time job that pays peanuts (i dont need to work i chose to out of boredom when kids started school) after being a SAHM for years and have nothing to my name. We haven’t got married before now because he’s always said he doesn’t have the spare cash and he wants us to have a proper wedding. Also neither of us were that bothered, but then i started realising it was putting me in a very precarious situation should something happen to him.
Ive been so happy planning the wedding and now i just feel so deflated. i feel like he just wants to protect himself. i dont even know how much he has - how do i know he’ll tell the truth about his assets?
I said “what if i say im not signing anything?” and he said “we’ll get something drawn up and then discuss it”. I dont think he’ll marry me unless i sign something. Im completely ignorant when it comes to legal/financial matters and i dont want to sign something that seems like a good deal and then end up getting shafted (i would obvs have an independent solicitor to try and stop that happening).
For the record i love him very much and i know he loves me. We have a great relationship. Ive been feeling so smug though about how happy we are after being together so long, still really fancy one another and all that. Now i feel like my bubble has completely burst. I feel like its changed my opinion of him in a negative way. It feels so icky.
Anyone have any experience of this?

I totally understand why people don't want to sacrifice their assets but don't understand why they then want to be married but go to lots of legal expense to try and override the actual contract of marriage. It feels like a public declaration of a joint and equal partnership to friends and family whilst secretly ensuring it isn't.

This ^^

Would they? Or would he perhaps not been able to invest them because he needed them to pay the increased housing and living costs since he wasn't sharing those costs?

He wasn't sharing any costs while supporting the OP and their three children so I'm sure he would have been fine.

If he's out working late and then coming home to a cooked budgeted meal, that is both cheaper and healthier than needing to eat out every night or get takeaway or ready meals.

You're clutching at straws here.

good point Keddgeree.

But in bygone times I read that where common law (or possibly even married) wives and husbands split, they just took the assets they brought. This is basically amongst the poor, where it could amount just to crockery even. But it was seen as "theirs" and could not be comandeered by the ex-partners. Social history on this is quite interesting.

Its such a difficult one.

I think a prenup in this case would be taking advantage of the OP’s existing vulnerability in the relationship. If this was 13 years earlier and her new boyfriend said, “By the way, love, for me, marriage doesn’t mean sharing finances. If we split up, it’s every man for himself, regardless of how we divided childcare, housework and paid work during the marriage”, what would she say? I believe - and sincerely hope - she would tell him to fuck off.

He may want a prenup because he (like many many others) may not agree that marriage should mean automatic rights to assets he owned before their relationship.

Fair enough when you enter a marriage. But this relationship has been established for 13 years and already includes 3 children. And I highly doubt he is only trying to ring fence whatever he had prior 13 years ago. Far more likely he is trying to ringfence everything he has earned in the past 13 years when they were in a loving committed relationship, living together and rearing children together. I know how that would make me feel. I also highly doubt this is an extremely wealthy man with plenty to around for everyone. more likely he has some savings, some pension, a property and he wants to make sure the love of his life, the mother of his children, the woman he is about to marry doesn't get her hands on it. I know how that would make me feel.

The OP clearly loves him and clearly wants to marry him and it is in her interest to marry him, even with a pre-nup. But pretending this is anything other than a man who has never seen their partnership as a joint enterprise and now has no wish to see his marriage as that either is just refusing to face facts.

If this was 13 years earlier and her new boyfriend said, “By the way, love, for me, marriage doesn’t mean sharing finances. If we split up, it’s every man for himself, regardless of how we divided childcare, housework and paid work during the marriage”, what would she say? I believe - and sincerely hope - she would tell him to fuck off.

By not marrying and keeping his assets in his own name and not sharing any with the OP, this is effectively what he said to her anyway - except about their partnership not their marriage.

pallisers

I agree, but now he wants her legal endorsement of that. I would tell him to swivel.

I think all couples should have an in-depth discussion and agreement about money, income and careers before they settle down in marriage or to live together. Putting the agreement in writing makes sense as does getting independent legal advice.

Quite why you would wait for 13 years and 3 kids to do that if it is important I don’t know. I can’t see what he would be able to legally protect at this stage. But there might be advantages for the OP. If he is self employed she could demand that he puts things in trust for her that she might never see if they divorced.

I would definitely want a prenup if marrying a self employed man or one who runs their own business, particularly if I had kids. I would be putting in very definite provisions to ensure that neither me or the children relied on his declared income post divorce.

OP I signed a prenup a couple of years ago. It was a horrid experience but under the advice of my solicitor I was better off signing the prenup and having children, than having children and not being married.

You need advice and your partner should pay for it. If you have any questions feel free to message me. It was a lonely upsetting time and whilst each situation is different I didn’t know anyone else who had been through it and felt very isolated.

Timeless19

Do you mind if I ask whether you remained married?

Prenups have very limited legal effect in England. One area where they may be important though is in splitting the family home-a prenup is good evidence of an intention to share equitable ownership in your home. Honestly I don’t see what it matters. You had three children with him even though he wasn’t willing to marry you. I don’t understand why you perceive this as a slight now.

BogglesGoggles

Maybe - as the OP said - she’s thought for a long time that he was willing to get married, but kids/finances got in the way? People rarely say to their cohabiting partner that they don’t want to get married because they want to keep all their money. They make excuses. When people are emotionally and practically invested, they often don’t scrutinise motivations enough.

timeless why did you marry him at all? What kind of man makes you feel like that? I hope you had a happy ending, and he was worth it.

Yes we are still married. We’d been together 8 years when we got married and i won’t lie It massively battered our relationship.

It’s awful planning your divorce and wedding at the same time and ultimately pre-nups are a snapshot of your life at one point. Both lawyers advised regular reviews of it post marriage aka “post nups”. We have no current intentions to do that even though we now have a child.

I would be telling him I no longer want to marry him. If he truly thought you were a team he would not say this. Do you really want to be married to a person who devalues your contribution to raising his children? This close to wedding he is hoping you will just sign whatever he presents to you. What he should be doing is making sure he has plenty of lice insurance to protect you and children if he were to die.

Timeless19

And if you do get divorced, are you going to contest it?

There was a lot of family pressure on us, plus some assets which I don’t believe I have any entitlement to.

I will be fine in a divorce I have my own assets which I bought to the relationship but it will be a very different standard of living for me.

Also (I think a concession on my husbands part) we signed our prenup a week before the wedding, so we have one, but potentially the validity can be questioned.

Timeless19

What would your husband say if you said you wanted to tear up the prenup? I don’t even know if that’s possible, but I would want to look into it. It sounds as though you were pressured into signing something that screws you over.

Timeless I can understand some of the reasoning if it is family money, that said no pre nup is water tight.
Are you reluctant to have more children? In case you get saddled with very little money and lots of dependents? I am sure you must have to think through everything very carefully.
Have you continued to work?
Do you have a shared bank account?

In this scenario I would be saving every penny I could, and wouldn't lack the lack of security.

I have to admit I would walk away in your position rather than marry someone like your dh, I could not love someone that was so calculated, family money or not.

lack - like

It's shit but even a shit pre nup would be better than what you have now i.e zero. I'd go along and see what he has prepared and take it to my own solicitor.

How can you feel part of their family when they have so blatantly made you feel the opposite?? I can imagine the relations with the ILs to be so strained, nor would I feel any sense of permanence and belonging.

They sound truly awful.

Maybe - as the OP said - she’s thought for a long time that hewaswilling to get married, but kids/finances got in the way?

This doesnt quite make sense.

OP didnt need to work. People are assuming his wealth is down to his job/her staying at home. But they didnt have enough money to get married?

She may more know the details of his earnings etc. But she knew there was enough spare money, that she didnt need to get a job.

So she knew there was money.

Not sure why, but I suspect his version of this is quite different.

Co-op says this about pre-nups

"Even if there is a dispute which ends up in Court, a Prenup will carry some weight. The Judge will consider the fact that you each signed a Prenup, and as long as your needs (and those of your children) are provided for, may well uphold the Prenuptial Agreement.
However, the Court will apply a test when deciding whether to implement a Prenup, which ensures that:
-Both parties have taken independent legal advice
-The Order fair and reasonable"

So it might all be for nothing anyway

lost The pre nup is likely to be anything but shit is my guess. He would have had the lawyers all over it for months and months. Yes you are right, she stands a better chance of financial security being married, and then contesting the pre nup (or not) than her position now. She is better getting the wedding over and done with, even if she has no desire to stay married to him after this stunt.