dp wants a pre-nup and i feel like shit

[lanaturnerssmile]

DP told me today “we need to sort out our finances with the solicitors”. He means some sort of pre-nup. Its 8 weeks to our wedding.
We have been together for 13 years and have 3 dc’s together.
He has £££ in assets after investing his money very well. He stands to make a lot of money if things continue as they are. I have a part-time job that pays peanuts (i dont need to work i chose to out of boredom when kids started school) after being a SAHM for years and have nothing to my name. We haven’t got married before now because he’s always said he doesn’t have the spare cash and he wants us to have a proper wedding. Also neither of us were that bothered, but then i started realising it was putting me in a very precarious situation should something happen to him.
Ive been so happy planning the wedding and now i just feel so deflated. i feel like he just wants to protect himself. i dont even know how much he has - how do i know he’ll tell the truth about his assets?
I said “what if i say im not signing anything?” and he said “we’ll get something drawn up and then discuss it”. I dont think he’ll marry me unless i sign something. Im completely ignorant when it comes to legal/financial matters and i dont want to sign something that seems like a good deal and then end up getting shafted (i would obvs have an independent solicitor to try and stop that happening).
For the record i love him very much and i know he loves me. We have a great relationship. Ive been feeling so smug though about how happy we are after being together so long, still really fancy one another and all that. Now i feel like my bubble has completely burst. I feel like its changed my opinion of him in a negative way. It feels so icky.
Anyone have any experience of this?

Icandothisallday

People can not work and not have 10k for a wedding (assuming a conventional wedding).

Who is the vulnerable one? The person staying home with kids or the one going to work to provide everything? Kids can be challenging but bosses can be bullies and forging a career is not easy. In my marriage I’m afraid the finances were a one way street. I earned ans saved, he earned and spent - and spent more that he put in. Childcare was paid for by me. Now he’s taking out more than he earned. I don’t call that fair or equitable.

We haven’t got married before now because he’s always said he doesn’t have the spare cash and he wants us to have a proper wedding. Also neither of us were that bothered, but then i started realising it was putting me in a very precarious situation should something happen to him.

This is what the OP says about their decision not to marry before now.

OP shouldn't you move this to legal?

NotBeingRobbed

Jobs can be changed. A person staying at home for 4-5 years’ unpaid childcare is sacrificing future earning potential as well as current income. I would only ever do that if my partner was prepared to share that risk by being married without some dodgy agreement where I got to be poor and he got to be well-off in the event of a split.

Notbeingrobbed, you situation is not that of the OP's. You ex sounds awful and I can see why you are upset about the split of assets but there is no reason to think the OP is like your ex.

People can not work and not have 10k for a wedding (assuming a conventional wedding).

But a wedding doesn cost 10 grand. What's a proper wedding? One that ends in you being legally married?

OP admits she wasnt bothered either. Now, she wants it. She could have remained working and saved as well. She says she still doesnt need to work but does out of bordem. So there must be plenty of money about.

That doesnt add up with 'not enough to save for a wedding' if it's important to her.

Icandothisallday

MN loves a good cheap wedding, but the reality is most people want a moderately nice wedding. It’s a special day, not a piece of paper. That’s what’s missing in this whole discussion: an appreciation that some things transcend the practical.

Yea as always on "marrying v cohabiting" and related threads getting married doesn't need to cost more than about £200

I used to work in the industry, it's entirely possible to have a beautiful and meaningful wedding without spending thousands!

Some people confuse "weddings" and the huge fantasy of being "princess for a day" etc with the legal and financial reasons for marrying.

And some people use that as an excuse to fob their partner off in order to protect "their" money.

Graphista

Not many people dream of marrying down the registry office in a charity shop two piece suit. There is nothing wrong with wanting your wedding to be special, and plenty of people put the day off until they can afford a meal and a DJ, with a few glasses of champagne, rather than insist on immediate marriage for legal and financial reasons. If that was the OP’s reason for not insisting on marriage, what the heck is wrong with that? She loves her partner and wanted to wear a dress. Not a crime.

It’s a special day, not a piece of paper.

And it can be special without spending 10k.

OP wants to now get married because she realises she is vulnerable. The ouece of paper is the important but to her.

This is the problem. People forget that above all, it's a legal piece of paper that gives some added protection to people in the ops position.

She could have had that a long time ago.

I dont buy it. She can afford not to work but more, in 13 years save up to protect herself.

I suspect, that the he doesnt earn a great deal. That would make sense to her believing they couldnt save to get married. It was cheaper for her to stay at home, because of child care. And these pre relationship assets are what provide the wealth. If so, chances are that that they werent impacted by her staying at home.

In all honesty, if my partner waant others about marriage, but then wanted to, years down the line when they realised my pre relationship assets wouldnt be shared if we split. I would be concerned too.

Also as it stands, op hasnt even seen the pre nup. She may be ok with it. She may more be. She may want to add something.

She may need to realise that a short marriage may end with her not being given access to them anyway.

Since she has hardly come back. Who knows.

I just dont think it's as simple and he is awful and she is at his mercy

I’ve only read a few pages but what arrangements do you presently have for your finances?

Do you both have life insurance? Are you the named beneficiary of work death in service payouts? House in both names or just his? Do you have your own bank account and if so, what goes into it? Presume you don’t get child benefit or tax credits due to his earnings?

No need to answer these questions to us here, but you need to consider these things and get some independent financial/legal advice.

It’s fair enough to want to protect assets that existed prior to the relationship but many of your husband’s assets will have been accrued while you were contributing to the family by keeping house/raising kids and that needs to be taken into account.

You need to think about the future too - Will you be expected to care for adults (your parents, his parents) and your entitlement to a share of his pension.
This isn’t just about what happens in a divorce, it’s also what happens if he dies first - the marriage should sort out the death bit automatically, but you might as well get it talked about now, while he is thinking prenup.

It’s shit of him to spring this on you at this stage but he has, so you either have to refuse to sign anything, or get your own side of it hammered out professionally first.

Marriage is primarily a legal contract regarding the sharing of assets and responsibilities, it’s sensible to get it sorted. It takes the shine/romance off, sure, but it’s important.

(I married my husband at 40/48 and we had to have a good look at the combining of finances - I owned the house outright already, but he earns the majority of the money. We both have kids from previous marriages and needed to ensure they would be take care of via wills etc AND we were very keen to get life insurance sorted due to our ages. The actual wedding day was still romantic, and yours can be too!)

If that was the OP’s reason for not insisting on marriage, what the heck is wrong with that? She loves her partner and wanted to wear a dress. Not a crime.

She can wear a dress at a registry office. But if legal protection was important to her, before and during her time as a sahp, she would have been happy with a small wedding.

Icandothisallday

I am very well aware that it is possible to get married on the cheap. However, the fact that most people choose to spend several thousand pounds on a wedding makes it perfectly feasible that the OP believed they could not afford to get married in the way they wanted to, until now. The OP has said that she now realises she is vulnerable and is concerned about that - again, I can’t see why this is considered anything other than a natural (if belated) thought process.

Icandothisallday

Perhaps she didn’t realise until recently how vulnerable she was? I don’t understand why you are arguing this one. Your only point seems to be serves her right, she should have had a registry office wedding. Well, hindsight is 20:20 isn’t it? She hasn’t done anything wrong and she does not want a prenup. She should not sign one.

I would take some legal advice on this one if I were you.Not too sure ,but as someone else stated .Pre nups are not always enforceable in this country anyway.Usually all money before and after marriage is counted and divvied up ,and courts are not impressed by anyone hiding their assets.Maybe speak to him and tell him you feel hurt after having 3 children with him, and see what he says (Do you think a "friend " of his may have mentioned it to him?

I'm no legal expert but surely something like a pre-nup needs to be discussed before 8 weeks prior to the wedding? It doesn't give you a lot of time to get your head round things and potentially make changes to it. It's a very odd stunt to pull. You do sound as though you've put yourself in a financially precarious position, and it's quite bizarre imo that you don't know what his assets actually are. Regardless, it sounds as though getting married is the best thing you could do now in terms of future security but I don't know how you will feel going into it with that attitude.

All I can say is now would be a good time to take a more proactive approach to your finances in general and maybe look at increasing your own earning potential if that's possible. Nobody on this thread knows the full situation or what your DH is really thinking. That's up to you to find out and go from there. Don't assume the worst but if he's being this matter of fact about things (to put it nicely) then try to do the same, put your emotions to one side for now and try come to an arrangement that seems fair to you both. Not very romantic but I'm not sure what else to suggest really. Hopefully with further communication things won't look so bleak. All you can do is give the whole thing your best shot at this point but I wouldn't cancel the wedding unless you now feel really strongly that he's a dick and you're better off without him, because otherwise you'll be back to square one in terms of your own vulnerability, plus this whole issue will cause resentment to grow in your relationship over time. I think you need to find a way to make the best of it. I really hope for you that he's not intending all this in the way it comes across at first glance.

I am not saying it serves her right at all.

I am saying the story doesnt all add up.

As I said. She knew they had enough liney that she would never need to work. But also believed they couldnt, in 13 years, save up.

I am saying that there is another side to this story and its not as simple as 'oh he is a bad man'

Of course if she doesnt want to sign, she shouldnt. But that may end with them not being married or a short marriage where she finds out that she isnt entitled to assets pre relationship or marriage.

I also said I would be wary, in his position as well.

I am also sure that if OP, brought assets into the relationship, her dp was a sahp and she wanted to ring fence pre relationship assets people alot of mn would think it was sensible

Lots of people are using the 'because she stayed at home he could further his career and earn more' as a reason that pre relationship assets should not be ring fenced. Except no one knows if her being a impacted the assets at all. Or if he is a high earner.

For what it’s worth, I know lots of long term co-habitees with kids who are finally getting round to marriage after 10, 15 years together.
I think it’s part of aging and understanding your own mortality better, along with realising that they’ve accrued assets along the way that now need some formalising as being shared and getting married is the easiest way to do that.

I can imagine that a perfectly content ‘we’ll get around to getting married one day’ can quite easily slip by for a decade or more before suddenly kicking in as ‘why the fuck haven’t we gotten married already?’

DH and I realised that a casual late-Friday-afternoon wedding for 40 with canapés and prosecco wasn’t much more expensive than two sets of solicitors and an accountant and was a much more enjoyable thing to spend money on - plus, there is no way to assign next-of-kin for medical decisions without marriage, and we’re old enough to worry about stuff like that!

Icandothisallday

No, it doesn’t mean she thought they couldn’t save up in 13 years. Conversations in relationships are rarely as black and white as you imply. Marriage isn’t something most people discuss from day 1. Then most people don’t get married when pregnant or with a small baby, because... well, because it’s hard work planning a wedding and they want to look nice and people think pregnant brides look tacky and rah rah rah.

It adds up fine. To normality.

I am also sure that if OP, brought assets into the relationship, her dp was a sahp and she wanted to ring fence pre relationship assets people alot of mn would think it was sensible

Not me. I wouldn’t marry anyone I wasn’t prepared to share my life with, and my life includes my assets.

This is horrible for you and with children and no marriage certificate as a 'common law' wife he could really leave you in the lurch with nothing as in law there is no such thing as a 'common law' wife.

It's a shame he didn't show his mean-spirited attitude a few years back before you had children.
You could tell the solicitor that you are concerned about his meanness, tell your fiance about how low it makes you feel. What a horrid way to start a marriage - it doesn't bode well, I'm sorry to say.

herculepoirot2 are you the OP?

Because you seem to know a lot about her thought processes. I am simply putting another point of view across but you are taking this very personal. And seem to know exactly what happened here.

You really dont like people, suggesting something else.

As I said, my opinion is that it doesnt add up. Yours is that it does , great for you. Crack on.

As far as I'm concerned, a marriage is an equal partnership. A pre-nup means you are never going to be equal, so it's not a true marriage.
A wedding yes, but not a marriage.

A person staying at home for 4-5 years’ unpaid childcare is sacrificing future earning potential as well as current income

Maybe. That is if she had a degre and some work experience, or enough work experience that she was already at managememt level.

All the mums I know in real life who make that claim had no little prospect of a good career in the first place like to pretend they sacrificed an invisible and unlikely career by being sahmso thetlre oh could earn a good income.