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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

dp wants a pre-nup and i feel like shit

598 replies

lanaturnerssmile · 22/05/2019 21:56

DP told me today “we need to sort out our finances with the solicitors”. He means some sort of pre-nup. Its 8 weeks to our wedding.
We have been together for 13 years and have 3 dc’s together.
He has £££ in assets after investing his money very well. He stands to make a lot of money if things continue as they are. I have a part-time job that pays peanuts (i dont need to work i chose to out of boredom when kids started school) after being a SAHM for years and have nothing to my name. We haven’t got married before now because he’s always said he doesn’t have the spare cash and he wants us to have a proper wedding. Also neither of us were that bothered, but then i started realising it was putting me in a very precarious situation should something happen to him.
Ive been so happy planning the wedding and now i just feel so deflated. i feel like he just wants to protect himself. i dont even know how much he has - how do i know he’ll tell the truth about his assets?
I said “what if i say im not signing anything?” and he said “we’ll get something drawn up and then discuss it”. I dont think he’ll marry me unless i sign something. Im completely ignorant when it comes to legal/financial matters and i dont want to sign something that seems like a good deal and then end up getting shafted (i would obvs have an independent solicitor to try and stop that happening).
For the record i love him very much and i know he loves me. We have a great relationship. Ive been feeling so smug though about how happy we are after being together so long, still really fancy one another and all that. Now i feel like my bubble has completely burst. I feel like its changed my opinion of him in a negative way. It feels so icky.
Anyone have any experience of this?

OP posts:
herculepoirot2 · 23/05/2019 12:16

I think all the advice to sign it just before the wedding day and not take legal advice is ridiculous. The probability is that these two people will have a marriage of at least several years. By signing the prenup, the OP would be validating her DP’s frankly awful attitude to money, and ensuring that she will continue to live like the help, at least until a messy divorce and potentially for the rest of her life. Fuck that. Sit him dow, tell him his request - as out of the blue and surprising as it was - has clarified a few things. The status quo is unacceptable. She wants full transparency and shared finances, or the wedding is off. Bugger him. Call his bluff.

WaterOffaDucksCrack · 23/05/2019 13:03

herculepoirot2 to be honest I'd never be a sahm without financial protection so I do think the OP has a responsibility over her own life instead of waiting for a man to do it.

herculepoirot2 · 23/05/2019 13:06

WaterOffaDucksCrack

Ship has sailed. She does have that responsibility, and I think she needs to be very clear that whatever he has in mind is VERY unlikely to be in her interests.

WaterOffaDucksCrack · 23/05/2019 13:10

If so, tell him you will write a communication to send to family and guests saying he has proposed a manifestly unfair prenup at the eleventh hour after your 13 years together and has fundamentally shaken your faith in your relationship and left your DC in jeopardy? If so, make sure you send it to his family so he can't shape the truth. Please don't do this. He might go around saying you only wanted to marry him for his money or whatever. At least read the agreement and get legal advice first!

CabbageHippy · 23/05/2019 13:12

I would quite happily sign it with no problem at all.

MsSquiz · 23/05/2019 14:11

@CabbageHippy how can you say you would "happily sign it" when you don't know what "it" contains?

Oshe · 23/05/2019 14:24

@MsSquiz interesting that you've picked up on Cabbage's post and not the hundreds of posters before her calling the partner a selfish bastard without knowing what he'd like the prenup to contain.

MsSquiz · 23/05/2019 14:29

@Oshe not sure how it is interesting, I do think it's odd to say you would happily sign a pre nup with no problem at all, without knowing the contents.

ItsAllGone19 · 23/05/2019 14:37

@Oshe to be fair anyone willing to sign a legal agreement without reading it first is naive at best...most likely stupid.

@lanaturnerssmile agree to read the pre-nup but make it clear you will not be signing on the spot because you want to take into careful consideration what it outlines and the protection it offers your children

Once you've seen the content you can make your next move. Good luck.

WhoAteMyNuts · 23/05/2019 14:39

A prenup is only ever there to protect assets of one person with a view to coming off better in a divorce by overriding the standard divorce laws.

In the uk we have laws that divide the assets at the time of a divorce based on the needs of each party. I came out with 'less' after my divorce because I had the better earning potential. I still didn't want to sign a prenup with my second marriage because the whole point of marriage is to form a financial partnership irrespective of how the future unfolds.

I totally understand why people don't want to sacrifice their assets but don't understand why they then want to be married but go to lots of legal expense to try and override the actual contract of marriage. It feels like a public declaration of a joint and equal partnership to friends and family whilst secretly ensuring it isn't.

OP you need to decide how you feel about this and get good legal advice before signing anything if you decide to go ahead.

AnAC12UCOinanOCG · 23/05/2019 14:43

The power balance in this relationship is frightening. The OP feels he is more intelligent, knows far more about legal and financial matters, he controls all the finances to the extent she doesn't even know what he has, he's controlled when they get married, and he doesn't think she's worth 50% of "his" assets. This is a prime setup for abuse.

herculepoirot2 · 23/05/2019 14:47

Oshe

If there was nothing in the prenup contrary to the OP’s interests, he wouldn’t want one. The whole point of a prenup is to ring fence assets. In this case, the OP’s DP wants to ringfence assets from his partner of 13 years and the mother of his children. Her work has undoubtedly facilitated the accumulation of “his” assets and, one suspects, what he is actually trying to do is appropriate what should be jointly held assets for himself. I can’t see why he would want the prenup otherwise. You?

pallisers · 23/05/2019 14:59

In this case, the OP’s DP wants to ringfence assets from his partner of 13 years and the mother of his children

exactly. Despite what he says this isn't about protecting her and the children's interests as much as his own. If it were he would have made the same financial arrangements already. He knows that she is entitled to none of his assets as it stands and is only entitled to child support if they split. He also knows marriage will change this. He would like to change that so the benefits of marriage are minimised for the OP. Many posters on here seem to be fine with that but if, after 13 years and 3 children my partner felt that our lives were anything other than joint, I'm not sure I could ever look at him in the same way again.

In the OP's case, I would get the best legal advice possible - I can't imagine one situation in which getting excellent legal advice isn't the best course of action. Then I would negotiate what changes I could to the pre-nup, sign it and marry him because any pre-nup is likely to give her a better outcome than her current situation and my guess is this man will have no problem not marrying her (I"m only amazed he agreed to marriage in the first place when he already had what suited him best). Where the relationship goes from there, who knows - she will certainly be settling to some extent. At least she will have a better idea of his assets and the value he places on her.

This thread should be read by anyone planning on staying home with children without being married and without independent assets of their own.

NotBeingRobbed · 23/05/2019 15:00

A pre-nup protects both. Marriage without a pre-nup is like going on a rollercoaster without being strapped in. She might come into a fortune after they marry. It could protect her too. Or maybe he is so wealthy that he is guaranteeing herself a good enough share to live very well anyway.

wheresmymojo · 23/05/2019 15:02

I think this is shocking - as a PP said pre-nups are for situations where a couple come together and one is already very wealthy.

He's being a total dick.

pallisers · 23/05/2019 15:07

In this situation pretending the pre-nup is going to protect the OP is just silly. "she might come into a fortune after they marry" really?

Maybe the pre-nup will be reasonably fair. No matter what it says it will mean she gets less than she would without it. And the man she has shared a partnership with for 13 years and has 3 children with wants that for her. And funny how he was happy for them both to be on the rollercoaster unstrapped while he was unmarried - because he had the only safety net and he knew it.

Pre nups may be appropriate and necessary for one partner but let's not pretend they are something they are not - protections for SAHMs and children.

WhoAteMyNuts · 23/05/2019 15:07

She might come into a fortune after they marry. It could protect her too.

NotBeing wouldn't you want to share that with the partner you married? I have shared inheritance with my DH and don't begrudge any of it because we are equal and combined resources through marriage.

If finances are to be kept segregated then why marry at all?

Oshe · 23/05/2019 15:07

Her work has undoubtedly facilitated the accumulation of “his” assets and, one suspects, what he is actually trying to do is appropriate what should be jointly held assets for himself. I can’t see why he would want the prenup otherwise. You?

The OP has said nothing to suggest that this is the case. She said:

He already had assets when we met but obviously over the years they have grown substantially

Perhaps, for example, he inherited some money before meeting the OP and invested in some property/stocks/long-term bonds/art etc that has appreciated in value over time. The value of these things would have appreciated whether the OP stayed at home with the children or not. Maybe the OP staying at home did facilitate the accumulation of his assets because otherwise he would have had to cash in on the investments in order to afford childcare. Or maybe their joint salaries would have been enough to afford childcare without touching his investments. The OP hasn't given much information so we have absolutely no idea whether she played any role in the accumulation of his assets.

He may want a prenup because he (like many many others) may not agree that marriage should mean automatic rights to assets he owned before their relationship.

StormTreader · 23/05/2019 15:08

"She might come into a fortune after they marry."

Yes, that's as likely as divorce, the gain is clearly equal Hmm

herculepoirot2 · 23/05/2019 15:08

NotBeingRobbed

You would have to be either very naive or disingenuous to believe that is what is happening here.

StormTreader · 23/05/2019 15:11

"Perhaps, for example, he inherited some money before meeting the OP and invested in some property/stocks/long-term bonds/art etc that has appreciated in value over time. The value of these things would have appreciated whether the OP stayed at home with the children or not. "

Would they? Or would he perhaps not been able to invest them because he needed them to pay the increased housing and living costs since he wasn't sharing those costs? If he's out working late and then coming home to a cooked budgeted meal, that is both cheaper and healthier than needing to eat out every night or get takeaway or ready meals.

Plinney · 23/05/2019 15:14

If it were me, I'd take legal advice, decide what suits you.

If his terms are unreasonable, don't marry him.

Go and live with your children (he'll still have to support them) and use that time to build yourself a job/career I suppose.

Its a difficult one. It is and it isn't about money. Its also about self-respect. Only you can gauge that OP. Is he taking the mick? Is it fair? etc etc.

13 years is a long time. Why marriage now? What pre-nup now?

Maybe a heart-to-heart would help? Its not very romantic I suppose, but the truth can be a great thing between couples.

Icandothisallday · 23/05/2019 15:18

Would they? Or would he perhaps not been able to invest them because he needed them to pay the increased housing and living costs since he wasn't sharing those costs? If he's out working late and then coming home to a cooked budgeted meal, that is both cheaper and healthier than needing to eat out every night or get takeaway or ready meals.

This going round in circles is pointless. Because the response to the above is....if he could afford to be the sole earner and financially support a wife and 3 kids....he could support himself.

Also people who live alone do not always live in expensive food. So this is all guess work. Aa I said, pointless.

Icandothisallday · 23/05/2019 15:19

Maybe the pre-nup will be reasonably fair. No matter what it says it will mean she gets less than she would without it.

Not if it is a short marriage.

herculepoirot2 · 23/05/2019 15:22

Oshe

All things are possible, but in this scenario it is unlikely. There is a reason he doesn’t tell her about his incomings. He wants to keep her in the dark and retain as much as possible for himself. Whilst there are some esoteric scenarios where he is doing this for the best of reasons, anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that it is deeply unlikely.