dp wants a pre-nup and i feel like shit

[lanaturnerssmile]

DP told me today “we need to sort out our finances with the solicitors”. He means some sort of pre-nup. Its 8 weeks to our wedding.
We have been together for 13 years and have 3 dc’s together.
He has £££ in assets after investing his money very well. He stands to make a lot of money if things continue as they are. I have a part-time job that pays peanuts (i dont need to work i chose to out of boredom when kids started school) after being a SAHM for years and have nothing to my name. We haven’t got married before now because he’s always said he doesn’t have the spare cash and he wants us to have a proper wedding. Also neither of us were that bothered, but then i started realising it was putting me in a very precarious situation should something happen to him.
Ive been so happy planning the wedding and now i just feel so deflated. i feel like he just wants to protect himself. i dont even know how much he has - how do i know he’ll tell the truth about his assets?
I said “what if i say im not signing anything?” and he said “we’ll get something drawn up and then discuss it”. I dont think he’ll marry me unless i sign something. Im completely ignorant when it comes to legal/financial matters and i dont want to sign something that seems like a good deal and then end up getting shafted (i would obvs have an independent solicitor to try and stop that happening).
For the record i love him very much and i know he loves me. We have a great relationship. Ive been feeling so smug though about how happy we are after being together so long, still really fancy one another and all that. Now i feel like my bubble has completely burst. I feel like its changed my opinion of him in a negative way. It feels so icky.
Anyone have any experience of this?

I'm not surprised you are upset by this, I would be too. Prenups are not necessarily a bad thing but it seems you have,without any legal protection, trusted him for 13 years and now you stand to gain those legal protections he wants to make sure he's not vulnerable. It would perhaps have been less hurtful if this had come up in conversation when you decided to get married but 8 weeks before the wedding feels particularly calculated.

I wonder if he has discussed financial arrangements for you and the children before this? If his intentions are good then I would expect he has a will making provision for you all in the event of his death, if that is not the case then I would conclude he is motivated purely by self interest and I would be very careful before I signed anything.

I would usually say that honesty is the best policy but I think in this situation you could look at the prenuptial agreement and get legal advice without telling him you have done so. If he wishes to proceed he will also have to disclose all of his assets in order for the agreement to be considered in the event of a divorce, this could be useful information in the event that this becomes an insurmountable problem and the relationship breaks down before the wedding. It will give you the information you need to claim child maintenance at a level appropriate to his income.

I think it would be wise to keep a record of the dates of conversations with him about it as I would consider a proposal of this nature being put forward just 8 weeks before your wedding coercive, particularly after 13 years and 3 children.

If you decide to sign a prenuptial I would make sure that he maintains your NI contributions if you are not planning to return to full time work in the near future as this will affect your state pension.

I hope you manage to sort this out before the wedding and enjoy the day. Good luck.

I’d start looking for full time work. And in order to facilitate that start leaving home very early and come back late - he needs to sort out childcare.

OP would be entitled to more than half of assets earned after marriage. 13 years together and 3 kids courts would take that into account.
I'm in a similar position to your DP. I have lots of assets before I met my partner and now we have 2 children. Everything is being left to our children should I die. Partly because I know he will spend all the money before the children get it.

I think OP you need to find some good independent legal advice - and treat this like a negotiation.

If he's then becomes unhappy about that -
you have,without any legal protection, trusted him for 13 years and now you stand to gain those legal protections he wants to make sure he's not vulnerable.

I'd point this out.

I found this.

Are prenups enforceable in UK?
Pre-nuptial agreements are not enforceable in UK courts, but recent case law has shown that judges are prepared to give them substantial weight and uphold them as long as certain precautionary steps were taken when the agreement was drawn up and signed.

Or, to put it another way:

you have, without any legal protection, trusted him for 13 years and now you stand to gain those legal protections he doesn't seem to want to ensure that you; the mother of his 3 children, has any of the protection the marriage would offer

Think long and hard about what this says about him as a person, his respect for you, and his intentions long term.

Please seek independent legal advice. Totally understand how this has taken the wind out of your sails. It feels like what should be the run-up to lovely romantic day has become a series of business negotiations.

Good luck.

you have,without any legal protection, trusted him for 13 years and now you stand to gain those legal protections he wants to make sure he's not vulnerable.

I would go further - he's trying to ensure that you don't acquire those legal protections. He doesn't want to be married, because the very nature of marriage is that you own everything jointly and fairly. I don't see how legally he can establish a pre-nup which would potentially leave you worse off than the established law i.e. with 50/50. He needs a wake-up call and hopefully he will get it once solicitors are involved.

OP what is the situation with your home? Do you own it jointly with the father of your children?

I agree with pp that you do need your own independent financial advice before you can make a decision as to whether you agree to any terms proposed in the pre-nup.

Things I would consider:

The finances /assets at the start of your relationship or at the latest 6 mo ths prior to your eldest child being born - NOT NOW as you have facilitated his life for the past 13 yrs.

You need a pension in your name which the prenup says he cannot touch at least equivalent to your potential career path earnings at the point you became pregnant.

There should be clear provision for the children. You dont say how old they are but I would say that should include full time childcare, school fees until they finish full time ed if this is the way you have / plan to go at any point. AND funding for their university places as otherwise he could leave them / you with the top up as his earnings will count.

A property provision either within your current residence or that provision would be made for you and the kids of equivalent value living.

A good spousal maintenance at least equivalent to your loss of earnings. I'd actually ask for that now anyway and invest it away from him - again in a manner he cannot touch.

But yeah my faith / trust in him would be shattered.

Was it his idea or yours to get married?
I wouldn't marry him or maybe I would if I could stomach him long enough to get divorced later on and take half "his" money. But then men like this bring out the butch in me.

I wouldnt object if it split.things in a way that he gets his original assets before he met plus 50%. You would also need to discuss pension. Tbh it's not a bad idea to.sit down and have a chat about this. Might be worth sorting your own pension and putting a big chunk in it now

Bitch not butch!

For me this would be enough to cancel the wedding.

Bit non-plussed by a lot of the comments here. I guess it depends on what matters most to you, OP. If I were you, I'd first decide if his comments had made me change my mind about wanting to marry him. Even though it's sensible to protect yourself against what may happen if things go wrong, it seems to me to be crazy to go into any marriage not thinking/hoping/believing it will last for the rest of your lives.

If I still wanted to marry him and he still wanted to marry me and I was satisfied it was for the right reasons, I'd get my own independent legal advice, without him, on whether a pre-nup would be a good idea or not.

All this talk of stalling is game playing, don't start a marriage that way.

Don't marry him!!!

Please, you're not even married and he's planning how best to screw you over financially during the divorce!

Just take a second to imagine your life if you'd never met him. What would you have chosen for yourself that he can never give you? What does the picture of real love and companionship in your head look like?

The brutal truth is that a man who really loved you would want you to be financially stable along with any dcs you're likely to be the primary carer of, if anything bad were to happen. He would want your contrubtion to be valued as equal to his.

Please take it from one who just spent 5 years and every shred of energy trying to agree a financial settlement with an abusive ex. Don't even go there. Spare yourself and live your life freely. X

For me this would be enough to cancel the wedding.

But then she stays where she is with no legal protection.

Though if he's having doubts or isn't as keen perhapss it's a way of getting her to stop it.

Erm sounds like he would be brutal woth YOUR JOINT MONEY (that he was able to earn as you provided him with free childcare). I would agree to pre nup and marry him and then if he were to leave...fight the pre nup. Courts I think have to consider it but in the context of the whole picture. You are financially far less powerful right now due to PROVIDING HIM WITH CHILDCARE and therefore I think courts would see the pre nup as something you were pushed into.

Or you could leave him as he does not sound very kind.......

@Ninkaninus

The reason why some men don’t believe in marriage to the mother of their children, by and large, is that they are selfish and don’t actually care about the financial protection of their children.

Well in this case we have no idea what he'd like the prenup to say or how much he's actually worse so how can you know that the children won't be protected?

That old chestnut applies...YOU NEED TO SEE A LAWYER. Ugh. Some men.

I am not married and have 4 DC. Our wealth has been accrued during the 20yrs we have been together. I however work full time, have my own pension and I am on the mortgage. If my DP asked me now to have a pre nup I would laugh in his face. A pre nup for what? Wealth accrued during our time together when I held back my own career for our DC and allowed him to flourish as he has more earning potential. That’s called being in a supportive healthy relationship and having open communication about what we decide as adults. It’s very different asking for a pre nup when someone has accrued wealth before you get married and have DC but highly unusual to suggest one after 13yrs,3Dc and wealth accrued when you have been together.... I do hope if you have a house your on the mortgage and you haven’t been foolish enough to put yourself at risk?

I hope you are ok, OP, and that you are the type of person to be strong and forthright with your DP and make sure you get some good , honest answers about the assets he has.
Have you had an honest and assertive discussion?
I wanted to put it into context a bit by telling you about a small exchange between my DH and I over what would happen if we got divorced. I joked that I would still come and ask him for cash (he earns lots more than me and it is shared now) and he said, “HotSauce, if we got divorced, I world pay you maintenance/living expenses until the day one of us died”. He isn’t especially money orientated though, but it it’s good for thought.

Honestly when I read threads like this I begin to think more and more that the "if you like then you shudda put a ring on it" camp is right.

the only person that seems to "benefit" from long term relationships with kids and property shared where the couple arent married are men.

The contribution that the woman makes in terms of looking after the kids, the house and doing all the "stuff" that means that the man can go and get a good job, have lots of leisure time to work on their investments and portfolios, career path etc is passed of as just worthless. I show my daughters threads like this because they need to be warned. there is no way that I want one of my girls moving in with a man, buying a house, having kids with him, giving up their hard fought careers to raise them or settling for a lesser job to do this on the whim of some shit who holds all of the financial cards. Yes, its an old fashioned view but seriously women need the proper legal protection to stop this blatant unfairness.

Sorry you've been upset by this. Being pragmatic I would say marriage is a legal contract with tax and inheritance implications.

I think pre-nups are pretty sensible - you need to get your needs, anticipated needs etc all sorted out too. So, see a lawyer and consider how things would work should you ever split up/become ill/die suddenly.

Then you can enjoy the wedding knowing everything is settled and clearly defined.

You know what? Just don’t get married. You’ve been happy to have three kids and not marry. Call off the wedding, dresses, cakes, champagne etc. It’s all nonsense. You are not declaring your love, you are planning to “take him to the cleaners”, aren’t you? Get a job, support yourself. Someone said “show him the door”. But who owns that door? I have two kids and worked through the marriage. My ex husband is taking me to the cleaners. I so WISH I had a pre-nup! You might win the lottery and he would take half. Would YOU feel OK about that? If you split unmarried he’d still have to pay maintenance for the kids. I’ve been married and it gave me no more protection from my freeloading ex than if I was a pregnant 15-year-old. Condoms give protection. Marriage doesn’t.

My DW put down the not insignificant deposit for our house before we were married, and had more savings. House is in both names. As I had the kids and went part-time her career soared, and she earns 5/6 x my salary. She gets to focus on her career, I do more childcare and WFH which frees her up. We have no pre-nup, we got married, everything we have is jointly owned, the money coming into the house is OUR money as she reminds me when I have a wobble about finances.
That's how it's supposed to be IMHO when you have kids and have been together 15 years.