Would you judge me?

[clairemcnam]

I hold my knife like a pen. I did not even think about this until MN. Would you judge me for this if you met me?

Again, working class girl here - you don't need to be so well-educated to have basic table manners. It's natural to hold your cutlery properly, even in my background. I might be common, but I still have manners

I don't mind how other people use cutlery but I teach my dc the standard rules so they know what they are. When they are older they can choose to use them or not depending on where they are.
This became slightly harder when we moved to the USA because fork shoveling is more normal here.
I did wonder if I needed to bother until I heard someone telling an American that they could always spot an American eating because of their poor table manners, the poor woman looked mortified but it was a work situation so they couldn't say much.
I don't want my dc to experience that.

I don’t why people are being so defensive if it means nothing to them. You hold your knife and fork the way you want what do you care if myself and others judge you?
Having a clean car means nothing to me. I know my neighbours ( to themselves) judge me. I know this because they wash their cars religiously every week. I can see a clean car is important to them. I don’t mind.

It looks awful and like one hasn't been shown correctly.

No, one is frightfully ignorant and couldn't care less what the MN cutlery snobs think

basic table manners

What is manners about putting your knife above your thumb or below it? Why does that make you polite or not? No one will say.

It looks awful and like one hasn't been shown correctly.

Who decides what is correct?

Who actually gives a shit about how you hold some lumps of metal to eat food? Do people really angst about this stuff? Honestly. I despair about some people. We are lucky to have food to eat. Who gives a fuck about how it is eaten?

I judge you if you stink railway carriages out with your Big Mac, chomp with your mouth open, scrape your cutlery against your plate, fart at table, slurp, or pick your teeth. I wouldn't personally put my elbows on the table, or hold cutlery incorrectly, but that's just because this is what I was taught and it's now ingrained as habit. If other people hold theirs differently, it's not affecting me or my life in the slightest. And the idea that seasoning before tasting is rude, I just do not 'get'. If you adjust the seasoning you're implicitly disapproving of the food's preparation whether you do so before or after you've taken a mouthful!

I like that manners and etiquette have been carefully differentiated by PPs on this thread. Manners are grace, and are intended to make others' lives and our own more pleasant and comfortable. Etiquette, OTOH, is a 'member of the club' type of snobbery that seems to do nothing but give people carte blanche to sneer at others.

Good etiquette does not equal good manners. In fact, the opposite is true. Etiquette is very often rudeness in itself.

same people who care about please, thank you, and all basic manners in general. They make life so much nicer and easier.

Who decided you shouldn't turn up at a diner party empty handed? Who decided you should write a thank you card?

Either you reject all rules and decide to live a free spirit, good luck with that, or you at least recognise them. You don't get to pick and chose

Etiquette is very often rudeness in itself.

and this is why I love MN. I should write them down

No, and anybody who would is a snobby cunt.

Rules like this were invented by people who have so little about them that in order feel superior to others they had to invent pointless rules.

MN is hilarious, it's another universe, I didn't know people were so ignorant about basic manners!
Being aware of certain aspects of etiquette, but believing them to be pointless, is not ignorance.

holding their knife and fork in the wrong hand. They were struggling to eat properly and looked ridiculous. eh? I eat with my knife in the supposed 'wrong' hand, if I couldn't eat with it there i wouldn't put it in that hand!

why is anything? Why do we use cutlery at all if you go there? Some people don't, and even eat from a shared communal dish. well exactly, some people use cutlery, some people use chopsticks, some people use hands, some people use bread, some people roll food into little balls and toss it in their mouth, some people struggle to use cutlery at all....different cultures, habits and abilities. The only thing at is 'bad manners' is judging people for the way they eat.

and this is why I love MN. I should write them down

It seems you should. As should the posters claiming they are big fans of manners, whilst blithely asserting in the same sentence that they happily judge others.

And all said without a trace of irony, too ...

It looks awful and like one hasn't been shown correctly
Is that you Elizabeth?
How dare one be so crass.
Tbf the ones who judge others by their upbringing are the crass ones.

As should the posters claiming they are big fans of manners, whilst blithely asserting in the same sentence that they happily judge others.

making comments about bad manners is very rude

acting like if didn't happen is not. You cannot police what people think, there's not rudeness in silently judging as long as you don't make anyone feel uncomfortable.But nice try

Are you talking about knives as in knives and forks, or knives as in sharp knives?

I can’t understand how you would be able to chop anything with a sharp knife if you were holding it like a pen. If you’re just talking about cutlery, the why would you hold that type of knife differently?

Doubt if I would notice . Besides you do what is right for you.
For someone to comment is bad manners on them.

I think some people are mixing up etiquette and manners.

It is good etiquette to hold a knife in a certain way and it can change between different cultures, etc.

It's not bad manners to hold your knife 'wrong.' Bad manners would be chewing with your mouth open, etc.

Dd holds her cutlery in the 'wrong' hands as she simply can't do it the other way. It works for her. It's not good etiquette in England but it's not bad manners.

And anyone who wouldn't invite someone for a meal for holding their cutlery 'wrong' - well, they are the ones who should be judged. That really is bad manners on show, and tells us an awful lot about what they are like as people.

I also think it's entirely different to saying please and thank you. They are good manners not just etiquette.

And anyone who wouldn't invite someone for a meal for holding their cutlery 'wrong' - well, they are the ones who should be judged.

why is that bad manners? you are allowed to invite whoever you like in your home, people will never know why or will ever notice. I don't believe for a second people invite anyone and everyone in their house, this is MN where half the posters cannot bare the idea of anyone spending a night in their house!

The men I saw in Nando’s looked like they were really struggling to use knives and forks. They’d have done better if they’d had them in the correct hands. Eating like a toddler is not a good look.

Imagine being such a bore that you care about how someone holds their knife. Christ.

Imagine being so dull you don’t have an opinion on anything.