To be annoyed by anti-Alabama posts?

[Bere111]

For context, I’m not prolife or pro choice...i wouldn’t have an abortion myself but I know that largely because I’ve never been in those desperate circumstances, so equally would never judge someone who had.
But all the anti-Alabama posts I’ve seen this week by women in the UK I find pretty ill informed.
For example, most not knowing it is still banned in Northern Ireland- part of the UK.
Also, people saying it’s ‘healthcare’ - I don’t believe this is true. I think it should be a crisis service, and making it sound routine trivialises it for me.
People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right. It’s a women choice to get pregnant or not get pregnant of course, but unless that girl or women fell pregnant through no choice of their own (in which can of course she should have access to abortion) I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out.
I fell pregnant by accident with ds1, I was very newly married, had a well paid job and owned a house but was younger then I’d planned to be (27)- yet I had 3 people ask ‘god, what are you going to do???’ Which I found bizarre.
Most people’s opinion of abortion (including mine!) is formed on the fact that for those that are victims of rape or incest, or the health of the mother or baby is in question, or for example the mother is under 18 or even under 21, the time they need to have a safe solution to deal with an unplanned pregnancy.
However, I know that only about 3% of abortion happen for the reason above. The rest the nhs classify as lifestyle factors.
I’m sure many women may be masking issues by telling the motivating reason for the termination is just a lifestyle factor, but even so I still think many, many abortion take place because of poor planning and poor timing.
I’ve had 2 close friends have terminations in our late 20s, both of which went on to have children with the same partner a few years later. Although I supported their choice, I didn’t really understand it. They were both preoccupied with the idea that the timing wasn’t right- even though they wanted children and wanted children with the current partners.
I think we put far to much pressure of ourselves that we have to do things in the right order- so then when a pregnancy comes along that wasn’t on the timeline, we freak out- even if we are perfectly capable of parenting at that time.
I also think something most be going wrong with how we are approaching contraception, especially as the fastest growing segment of women needing abortion are 30+ and have ahead previous abortions. Can women not access contraception easily or could giving more education around ovulation cycles help this (this is pretty common place in countries like Germany from secondary school age, and women generally avoid sex when they’re ovulating- even when using another form of contraception)
I guess all in all I think it’s a really complex matter- and I don’t think we have it totally right in this country, and I find it a trivialisation to see my friends sharing handmaid tale’s pictures with ‘my body my choice’ tag lines...surely when a matter really is life or death, we shouldn’t simplify it as a women’s prerogative?
Or AIBU?

Every woman must have the right to decide whether or not to continue with a pregnancy. And that should be without judgement, harassment or pressure.

I completely agree with this. Does it happen though?

You're posts are so breathtakingly ignorant and sanctimonious I'm not sure whether you genuinely believe the rubbish you're spouting or whether you're just bring a goady fucker.

Firstly, abortion is healthcare, whether you like it or not. It is a medical procedure and it doesn't stop being a medical procedure because you feel icky about it. Grow the fuck up.

Secondly, your posts are all about you. Your feelings, your opinions, your experiences. So, other women shouldn't be allowed the basic right to autonomy over their own bodies and should potentially be forced to gestate and give birth to a child against their will because you had a child in slightly less than ideal circumstances? Or because you feel uncomfortable with anyone who isn't in "crisis" (and I'm sure you'll happily be the judge of what constitutes a crisis) having a termination? Or because your friends have had fertility issues? The arrogance is just astounding.

As for your ridiculous arguments about the cost to the NHS...yeah right, that's why you have issues with abortion, because you're concerned about the fiscal implications, not because you're a sanctimonious, judgemental and completely lacking in empathy If abortions weren't readily available on the NHS then women would be butchered at the hands of backstreet abortionists, causing permanent damage, disability, infection etc etc. That would probably put a bit of a strain on the health service, don't you think? Not to mention the cost of all those unwanted children ending up in an already overloaded care system, requiring input from social services, mental health services, substances misuse services and the youth justice system (because believe it or not, people having children they don't want and aren't willing/able to care for has consequences and tends to come with a lot of issues) all of which are already buckling under the pressure. But of course none of those would bother you.

While we're on the subject of these unwanted children, how many can we put you down for, OP? I assume you'll be willing to adopt at least a couple of them since you feel so strongly.

Look- I’m not trying to speak for anybody. I’m not an MP.
And if I was having to vote, like the electorate in Ireland did last year, I would vote to always have abortion services in this country.
My reference to Alabama isn’t ‘woohoo, go alabama!!’, it’s obviously extremely backward and worrying - as our many of their other laws and attitudes (I’ve been to Alabama for work travel- it’s a crazy place!)
My point was the response of the women in the UK is outrage at a alabama, - country in the UK has equally archaic laws. The poster saying well NOrthern Ireland are moving forward with this- no they’re not, the DUP (solely the only party taking the antiabortion stance) or more powerful then ever thanks to Westminster/ or own PM.

What about the painful choice that some people have to face when they discover through a scan that their child will be born with serious, life limiting disability? They are not allowed to choose in Alabama either. They face a lifetime of expensive healthcare, a completely different future for themselves and nay existing family and children and many traumatic experiences. Some people may feel equipped for that ; others here and in other states might be offered a termination. Not in Alabama.

@mumwon

Can you post the links? I vaguely remember that change and have been struggling to find the references. My mother had a late miscarriage in the 60s and wanted some kind of blessing for the fetus but was advised by her parish priest that this was not possible as it did not have a soul until it was born...

@ministry

I never once mentioned cost to the NHS???

My point was the response of the women in the UK is outrage at a alabama, - country in the UK has equally archaic laws

If that was your point what was the purpose of all the moralising about reasons for abortion?

So, we are only allowed to voice outrage if it's on our won doorstep?

own doorstep.

@piggy

You’ve obviously not read my posts

I’ve never said we should ban abortions, certainly not for families dealing with foetal abnormalities. I also would terminate a pregnancy if the foetus had health issues, I would give it a second thought.

My point was, these represent about 1% of total abortions.

I'm not really sure why you're only allowed to speak out about issues that affect women within a certain geographical distance to you? It is possible to want abortion to be available to women in NI and Alabama, all at the same time.

Where are you getting the statistics you keep bandying about OP?

YABU, OP. Woman's choice for whatever reason she sees fit. Always. Any laws contrary to this are completely backwards.

I can see getting a bit annoyed when the focus on Alabama and other US states over what happens on our doorstep in the UK. Many activists are involved in helping in both and more countries and I do think it would be great for more information to be out there for people to be able to support those doing that, but it can sometimes be a bit frustrating when some Brits (and more frustrating, British media) like to point to abroad as the place of all horrors while being more soft-touch if not outright ignoring horrible systemic issues that happen here. Yes, there are contributing factors in the US like contraception being less accessible in many ways, but it's

As for the rest, infertility is painful and very sad when someone really wants biological children, but it doesn't change how risky pregnancy and childbirth are. Someone being infertile isn't going to mean someone else won't have lifetime injuries from pregnancy or childbirth. Someone going through a forced pregnancy and childbirth doesn't mean someone else who was previously unable to will now get pregnant or that a child will be available for them to adopt (lots of communities against abortion are also against adopting out of the community and married women can't adopt out on their own). It just means a woman was forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth, and the resulting child will have a significantly higher chance of being abused and neglected. It means absolutely nothing different for the infertile women and a possible lifetime of pain for the woman and child.

And, even if viewed as a crisis service, safe abortions are still a medical healthcare service as well. The two are not exclusive.

Every child wanted. Every pregnancy, with all the risks they entail, a wanted choice. Not everyone can choose to be pregnant, but that doesn't make that choice any less valuable or important in a civilized society to the women bearing the risks.

OP "I just don’t see pregnant as an ‘ooops’ any more."

Ironically this is one reason women are having abortions - we are told so much shite how hard it is to conceive. What happened to the good old days when it was emphasised that missing one pill could result in pregnancy?

anyway, OP, your views are abhorrent. I am very glad that there's a strong reaction to the situation in Alabama.

It's not just about control of women... It's control of poor women. Keeping them in poverty for generations to come.
Let's not pretend for one second that the wives and mistresses of the rich white lawmakers in Alabama won't be able to access abortion in another state.

It disgusts me in Alabama and it disgusts me in N Ireland.

So you're not judgemental because you only only spout your judgemental nonsense online!! You don't even have the courage of your convictions!
People are outraged by Alabama because it is outrageous. Women and men the world over should be voicing their outright condemnation of this.

YANBU. I find MN in general has a weird attitude to abortion. It seems to be very much encouraged and there are posts where someone is saying they want the baby but they aren't in a good relationship or perhaps aren't financially where they want to be and people on here will be quite pushy about trying to get them to reconsider abortion. It's weird.

I'm prochoice but I still think abortion is very sad and should be a last resort - not the first thing that people jump to just because they weren't expecting to be pregnant, and certainly not something that other women should try and pressure you into. That really disgusts me. People say it's the woman's choice, but it seems like a woman choosing not to have an abortion is often judged very harshly by other women. At least on MN, anyway...

but unless that girl or women fell pregnant through no choice of their own (in which can of course she should have access to abortion) I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out.

Your position is quite clear, OP.

When did you decide to become a forced-birther?

But MY point OP is that my disgust and outrage about Alabama is levelled at the criminalisation of women (and doctors) for carrying out terminations in case of rape, incest and severe disability. You cannot sweep this aside with a made up statistic.