To be annoyed by anti-Alabama posts?

[Bere111]

For context, I’m not prolife or pro choice...i wouldn’t have an abortion myself but I know that largely because I’ve never been in those desperate circumstances, so equally would never judge someone who had.
But all the anti-Alabama posts I’ve seen this week by women in the UK I find pretty ill informed.
For example, most not knowing it is still banned in Northern Ireland- part of the UK.
Also, people saying it’s ‘healthcare’ - I don’t believe this is true. I think it should be a crisis service, and making it sound routine trivialises it for me.
People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right. It’s a women choice to get pregnant or not get pregnant of course, but unless that girl or women fell pregnant through no choice of their own (in which can of course she should have access to abortion) I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out.
I fell pregnant by accident with ds1, I was very newly married, had a well paid job and owned a house but was younger then I’d planned to be (27)- yet I had 3 people ask ‘god, what are you going to do???’ Which I found bizarre.
Most people’s opinion of abortion (including mine!) is formed on the fact that for those that are victims of rape or incest, or the health of the mother or baby is in question, or for example the mother is under 18 or even under 21, the time they need to have a safe solution to deal with an unplanned pregnancy.
However, I know that only about 3% of abortion happen for the reason above. The rest the nhs classify as lifestyle factors.
I’m sure many women may be masking issues by telling the motivating reason for the termination is just a lifestyle factor, but even so I still think many, many abortion take place because of poor planning and poor timing.
I’ve had 2 close friends have terminations in our late 20s, both of which went on to have children with the same partner a few years later. Although I supported their choice, I didn’t really understand it. They were both preoccupied with the idea that the timing wasn’t right- even though they wanted children and wanted children with the current partners.
I think we put far to much pressure of ourselves that we have to do things in the right order- so then when a pregnancy comes along that wasn’t on the timeline, we freak out- even if we are perfectly capable of parenting at that time.
I also think something most be going wrong with how we are approaching contraception, especially as the fastest growing segment of women needing abortion are 30+ and have ahead previous abortions. Can women not access contraception easily or could giving more education around ovulation cycles help this (this is pretty common place in countries like Germany from secondary school age, and women generally avoid sex when they’re ovulating- even when using another form of contraception)
I guess all in all I think it’s a really complex matter- and I don’t think we have it totally right in this country, and I find it a trivialisation to see my friends sharing handmaid tale’s pictures with ‘my body my choice’ tag lines...surely when a matter really is life or death, we shouldn’t simplify it as a women’s prerogative?
Or AIBU?

and the argument is against financial exchange, not compassionate surrogacy or sex with strangers

Thats my understanding as well

I appreciate that there may be a few posters who dont agree with ANY form of surrogacy...but the majority don’t seem to think that way

I don't think "as early as possible, as late as necessary" needs to be particularly complex. It's a principle of choice. It allows the individual who is considering an abortion to asses their own life, their own particular circumstances and to negotiate their own grey areas.

A woman may well regret her termination, key point is that she had a choice and in that moment made the choice for her.

If she had the choice, and wasn't forced into it and if she was given all of the options.

The way the system is organised now it seems to be rush women through asap with minimal counselling, if any. How can that be a good thing?

And it isn't only a few women who regret it is it?

And to say regret is an acceptable price to pay for having choice minimises what some women go through. Why not acknowledge that for some women it will be the wrong decision and will affect them badly?

I appreciate that there may be a few posters who dont agree with ANY form of surrogacy...but the majority don’t seem to think that way

Quite sure the threads are still standing if you want to check for yourself.

ShittensAndKittens

But that is what a poster said - trust that women will make the right decision.

But for lots of women they will regret having an abortion, so that can't have been the right decision can it?

Noname99, you don't want the floor, yet post lengthy posts. You wish that people would stop pretending that this is a black and white issue, yet are ever so quick to dismiss the opinions of those with whom you disagree as "shrieking" and "blah blah and women choice stuff".

Okay then.

Why does being in a happy relationship make any bit of difference to having an abortion?? And so what if I have an abortion due to poor planning? Is it better I then have a child I don't want? YABVU.

Who isn’t acknowledging that for some women it’s the wrong choice? We can sympathize with those women, but that doesn’t mean we think they, and other women, should lose the right to make the choice.

Again, what about the point about continuing a pregnancy? There are women that regret that, should women lose the right to make that decision then? Should they be forced into counseling to make sure they don’t really want an abortion instead, because they might regret giving birth?

Beg to differ with you in regards to surrogacy. There have been plenty of threads slating people that have used surrogates, including altruistic surrogates

I regularly post on FWR and there are several posters who object to all surrogacy. I'm one of them. It really isn't an outré opinion there.

YABVVVU - how can you be annoyed by anti-Alabama posts, rather than appalled, disgusted and terrified by what is happening in Alabama? Talk about having completely fucked up values and the empathy of a gnat. I saw this on another board:

Modern Woman's Guide to Self Abortion
This is women's lives in Alabama now. And you are annoyed that posters are against this? What the hell is wrong with you?

"I don't think "as early as possible, as late as necessary" needs to be particularly complex. It's a principle of choice."

Agreed. You can put a lot of thought into something and still conclude at the end that your beliefs are capable of very simple expression. It's a fallacy that the most reasonable position in a debate is always the one that's slap-bang in the middle and is full of "maybes" and "buts".

Oh, and you're never going to get a positive reaction if you come on a forum and repeatedly accuse women who are worried about their reproductive rights of "screaming" and "shrieking" (that's not directed at you, of course, teyem).

however much one sided screams it’s not a human life .... for some people it is.

And for those people, they can choose not to have an abortion. But they don’t get to choose for anyone else.

Not only does that line keep moving as medical technology moves, but does that mean that my niece, who is absolutely depended on a machine to breathe, is not ‘viable’ also? Should her right to life be dependent on her mothers ability to cope?

A nonsensical comparison and insulting to your niece and any other actual living person Who requires medical intervention to live. Your niece is a real, existing person. A foetus is not. And your niece isn’t dependent on her mother’s body for her survival. If her mother wasn’t there, she wouldn’t die; someone else could assist her.

But for lots of women they will regret having an abortion, so that can't have been the right decision can it?

But for lots of women, and men, we will make many decisions that we regret. I know that I've certainly made some less than brilliant decisions, in my personal life and my career. Sometimes that happens, unfortunately.

I don't believe that the answer is to remove the ability to make that decision from women entirely, though.

And for many women, it will have been the right decision.

I wonder how many of the people posting are able to do so because at one point a predecessor was unable to get an abortion.

I am fully aware that I am only here because my parents were totally inexperienced and inept at using condoms and fucked it up royally. They’d been advised to use contraception for a while after two miscarriages. I wouldn’t be here if they’d been competent with that condom.

I am still in favour of condoms being freely available.

For some people it will be the wrong choice and it will affect them badly. Lots of people make a choice in life that affects them badly.

Now, not having a choice that affects you badly, that's the real kick in the teeth. That's an invisible prison.

In that regard, I wish the pro-lifers would put their efforts into creating a landscape in which women could rely on more resources to make their choice to continue with their pregnancy a viable choice. Are they choosing MPs who keep open sure start centres, support a benefits system that doesn't keep people in poverty, do they support an increase in taxes, do they vote for women friendly parties?

This all seems like a lot more work and less satisfying than bitching at and criminalising women who feel their hand is being forced towards abortion. It also requires you to accept that some women will often still make a positive decision to abort. But, on the whole, you'd be able to go about your pro life sensibilities without inflicting fuck loads of trauma.

Not only does that line keep moving as medical technology moves, but does that mean that my niece, who is absolutely depended on a machine to breathe, is not ‘viable’ also? Should her right to life be dependent on her mothers ability to cope?

Are you seriously saying a woman who is pregnant should be viewed in the same way as an inanimate machine? Gosh.

WestBerlin

A PP said that women will make the right choice for them - that isn't guaranteed though is it?

And yes, regretting a pregnancy is awful, but you have more options in that case.

Once you have aborted you can't change your mind. And if you are rushed or pressured to make a choice it's not difficult to see how you could make the wrong choice.

If you choose to proceed with the pregnancy you have 4 or 5 months to really think about it and have a late abortion if you change your mind, or even to choose adoption.

Why not acknowledge that for some women it will be the wrong decision and will affect them badly?

I have acknowledged that. But I don’t believe that some women regretting their choices means all women should lose the right to make choices. Who could possibly be better placed than the woman in question to make a decision about an abortion?

Lots of people regret the choices they make for a range of reasons. It’s a very fundamental part of being human. It doesn’t mean we should be denied the right to make choices.

“And to say regret is an acceptable price to pay for having choice minimises what some women go through. Why not acknowledge that for some women it will be the wrong decision and will affect them badly?”

Of course I will acknowledge that. Will you acknowledge that for some women having the baby will will be the wrong decision and will affect them and the baby badly?

lyralalala - I hope you don't mind my saying that, with all sincerity, you sound like an excellent parent in my book.

But for lots of women, and men, we will make many decisions that we regret. I know that I've certainly made some less than brilliant decisions, in my personal life and my career. Sometimes that happens, unfortunately.

I agree. But most decisions aren't so absolute are they? Most times you could change your mind if you realise you made the wrong choice. You can't with abortion can you?

A PP said that women will make the right choice for them - that isn't guaranteed though is it?

And who would be guaranteed to make the right choice for her? A doctor after a half hour consultation? The government? The church?

There is no guarantee that any choice is the ‘right’ one - there may not even be a right choice. But it is fundamental to women’s rights they they are the ones who make decisions about their own bodies.

But for lots of women they will regret having an abortion, so that can't have been the right decision can it?

Some will, many won’t.

They all should be free to make their own decisions and their own mistakes.

Many women seriously regret adoption though, and it’s very difficult to undo that decision.

Adoptions also seem to create many damaged people.

Of course I will acknowledge that. Will you acknowledge that for some women having the baby will will be the wrong decision and will affect them and the baby badly?

Yes. I've never said otherwise. Which is why I want to see much more support and advice available. So that women can be supported to make the right choice - whatever that is.