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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To be annoyed by anti-Alabama posts?

999 replies

Bere111 · 19/05/2019 10:41

For context, I’m not prolife or pro choice...i wouldn’t have an abortion myself but I know that largely because I’ve never been in those desperate circumstances, so equally would never judge someone who had.
But all the anti-Alabama posts I’ve seen this week by women in the UK I find pretty ill informed.
For example, most not knowing it is still banned in Northern Ireland- part of the UK.
Also, people saying it’s ‘healthcare’ - I don’t believe this is true. I think it should be a crisis service, and making it sound routine trivialises it for me.
People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right. It’s a women choice to get pregnant or not get pregnant of course, but unless that girl or women fell pregnant through no choice of their own (in which can of course she should have access to abortion) I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out.
I fell pregnant by accident with ds1, I was very newly married, had a well paid job and owned a house but was younger then I’d planned to be (27)- yet I had 3 people ask ‘god, what are you going to do???’ Which I found bizarre.
Most people’s opinion of abortion (including mine!) is formed on the fact that for those that are victims of rape or incest, or the health of the mother or baby is in question, or for example the mother is under 18 or even under 21, the time they need to have a safe solution to deal with an unplanned pregnancy.
However, I know that only about 3% of abortion happen for the reason above. The rest the nhs classify as lifestyle factors.
I’m sure many women may be masking issues by telling the motivating reason for the termination is just a lifestyle factor, but even so I still think many, many abortion take place because of poor planning and poor timing.
I’ve had 2 close friends have terminations in our late 20s, both of which went on to have children with the same partner a few years later. Although I supported their choice, I didn’t really understand it. They were both preoccupied with the idea that the timing wasn’t right- even though they wanted children and wanted children with the current partners.
I think we put far to much pressure of ourselves that we have to do things in the right order- so then when a pregnancy comes along that wasn’t on the timeline, we freak out- even if we are perfectly capable of parenting at that time.
I also think something most be going wrong with how we are approaching contraception, especially as the fastest growing segment of women needing abortion are 30+ and have ahead previous abortions. Can women not access contraception easily or could giving more education around ovulation cycles help this (this is pretty common place in countries like Germany from secondary school age, and women generally avoid sex when they’re ovulating- even when using another form of contraception)
I guess all in all I think it’s a really complex matter- and I don’t think we have it totally right in this country, and I find it a trivialisation to see my friends sharing handmaid tale’s pictures with ‘my body my choice’ tag lines...surely when a matter really is life or death, we shouldn’t simplify it as a women’s prerogative?
Or AIBU?

OP posts:
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7
RattyTat · 19/05/2019 15:43

There is a pretty big fucking obvious difference between a 20 week old foetus and a one year old child.

TheFastandCurious · 19/05/2019 15:43

to act like terminating human pregnancies is no big deal, is bizarre and worrying

To act like being forced to bring a child into the world who cannot be supported and have its needs met for 18 years is a better option is even more bizarre and worrying.

SignedUpJust4This · 19/05/2019 15:43

No good can come from forcing people to have children they don't want.

meow1989 · 19/05/2019 15:44

@playmytune is it really "alive" or "just" living though? I'm not goading I'm interested in the definition. A 20 week old fetus will not survive without the mothers body (cue articles about surviving 20 week fetuses).

What about people on life support? They're technically alive but the machines are doing the work, is it murder if a family decide to stop treatment?

Angelf1sh · 19/05/2019 15:45

YABVVVVVVVVVVVVVU. And judgemental.

moonfacebaby · 19/05/2019 15:46

I’m pretty sure most women don’t have abortions lightly - I certainly didn’t.

Having a child is a huge thing - totally life changing and as a woman, you know the buck will stop with you. Always.

What Alabama has done is incredibly shocking, and it does make me feel like we are moving towards something like The Handmaids Tale.....eroding of our rights to our own bodies.

BertrandRussell · 19/05/2019 15:46

“If a mother decides to kill her 1 year old child, that is murder, however if she decides to kill her 20 week foetus that’s fine?”

Well done. A masterful grasp of the law of the land.

lbergamot · 19/05/2019 15:46

I’m completely pro choice but I do think having an abortion can be a difficult and traumatic decision even if it is ultimately the right one. Some woman are also put under pressure to have an abortion.

I think we should be able to discuss this without it undermining the importance of ensuring all woman have access to abortion.

Bere111 · 19/05/2019 15:46

@rattytat
There is also a massive difference between a 6week old embryo and a 16weeks old foetus.
One being a cluster of cells, the other being a fully formed human.
My abortion legislation doesn’t differentiate.

OP posts:
DecomposingComposers · 19/05/2019 15:48

What about people on life support? They're technically alive but the machines are doing the work, is it murder if a family decide to stop treatment?

Well it would be murder if the drs don't agree surely? People on life support aren't all brain stem dead are they?

Upzadaizy · 19/05/2019 15:49

People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right

You are judging though.

No contraception is 100% certain. And a termination is a medical healthcare procedure.

So YABU

RattyTat · 19/05/2019 15:50

I do not count a 16 week foetus as a fully formed human. It has the potential to become one, but it is most certainly not equivalent to a someone who has been born.

DecomposingComposers · 19/05/2019 15:50

lbergamot

Exactly. And portraying abortion as no big deal, while possibly making it easier for women who want it, also makes it harder for women who don't want it to argue their case.

Everyone's needs have to be balanced here. Not just one side's.

meow1989 · 19/05/2019 15:51

Decomposing - medical professionals have to agree to abortion too.

RattyTat · 19/05/2019 15:52

I do think having an abortion can be a difficult and traumatic decision even if it is ultimately the right one. Yes it can be a difficult and traumatic decision, as can be deciding to bring another human being to the world, but it isn't always. I have friends and a relative who've had an abortion. None of them are at all traumatised or upset by it.

GoldenPineapples · 19/05/2019 15:55

Maybe the NHS should be more willing to steralise women who ask to be steralised but get refused.

As long as she hasn't just given birth, so hormonal, or being forced and is willing to sign something to say she won't sue then why not?

Myworstnightmare123 · 19/05/2019 15:55

People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right

Whose choice is then? A bunch of white, privileged middle aged men FFS? It has fuck all to do with ANYONE else if a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy.

DecomposingComposers · 19/05/2019 15:57

meow1989

I'm not sure that I understand your point?

In my experience drs pushed a termination for possible downs syndrome and presented it as the only choice. I was roundly criticised for even considering continuing with the pregnancy if tests were positive, because I could then go on to have a healthy child rather than caring for this one for the rest of my life.

That isn't pro choice. That's removing choice. And that's one danger of presenting abortion as no big deal.

I advocate choice, but choice for everyone.

whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 19/05/2019 15:59

Well done OP. You are artfully avoiding questions posed to challenge your archaic viewpoint. Hmm

Each individual (man or woman) should be in charge of their OWN bodies. Not women, as a whole, in charge and certainly not vice versa.

Pp made a great point about anti-choicers washing their hands of children they have saved after birth. Their job is done. I have seen no-one offer to give a child a loving home when they were born as the result of a forced birth!

Just for good measure; the globe is GROSSLY over-populated. There isn't enough habitable space for everyone never mind other resources. And this is one of the rarer instances where people won't reap what they sow. The burden will come generations later and the lives that people have worked so hard to force into existence save, will be ones of suffering, poverty and illness.

AllAboutMeAlways · 19/05/2019 16:02

So, OP, you think a woman ought to be forced to use her body as an incubator whether she wants to or not?

Are you also in favour of slavery? Or is it just the uteruses of women you think the state has the right to own?

TheRedBarrows · 19/05/2019 16:02

Why this ongoing infantilising if women?

I have had two abortions and two very much wanted pregnancies and babies.

Having now had experience of wanted children it makes me even more certain that I took the right decision and even more relieved that I had access to a safe service. And after brief counselling was deemed to know my own mind.

The whole approach should be centred on the woman, not manipulated and second guessed to engineering women into some judgemental version as to how she ‘ought ‘ to feel. Making it harder in order to support those who want to keep their babies is grotesque.

More support (financial, housing, independence from abusive relationships) for those that would rather not have a termination, more freedom and respect for those that do. If a woman does not have dominion over her own body she has no dominion whatsoever.

Grumpelstilskin · 19/05/2019 16:02

OP, please fuck off to Alabama or Gilead. You would fit in well there.

MummytoCSJH · 19/05/2019 16:03

You are being unreasonable, and you are pro life. Or more like pro-no choice for women. It's none of your business what other women do or why they do it.

BlackForestCake · 19/05/2019 16:04

I’m not prolife or pro choice...i wouldn’t have an abortion myself but I know that largely because I’ve never been in those desperate circumstances, so equally would never judge someone who had.

If you wouldn’t judge someone else, presumably you wouldn’t try to use the law to stop them either. In which case, you are pro-choice.

dreichuplands · 19/05/2019 16:07

decomposing I had no testing for downs, partly because twin testing was more difficult then and partly because I had decided I wouldn't terminate so there was no point. My doctors were absolutely fine with that decision and didn't push it all.
But the decisions I could make in my 30's weren't the same that I would have been able to make in my teens.
Abortion is a big deal for some people and a very small deal for others. It isn't one universal experience. Everyone should have access to the healthcare they need including terminations.