Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To be annoyed by anti-Alabama posts?

999 replies

Bere111 · 19/05/2019 10:41

For context, I’m not prolife or pro choice...i wouldn’t have an abortion myself but I know that largely because I’ve never been in those desperate circumstances, so equally would never judge someone who had.
But all the anti-Alabama posts I’ve seen this week by women in the UK I find pretty ill informed.
For example, most not knowing it is still banned in Northern Ireland- part of the UK.
Also, people saying it’s ‘healthcare’ - I don’t believe this is true. I think it should be a crisis service, and making it sound routine trivialises it for me.
People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right. It’s a women choice to get pregnant or not get pregnant of course, but unless that girl or women fell pregnant through no choice of their own (in which can of course she should have access to abortion) I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out.
I fell pregnant by accident with ds1, I was very newly married, had a well paid job and owned a house but was younger then I’d planned to be (27)- yet I had 3 people ask ‘god, what are you going to do???’ Which I found bizarre.
Most people’s opinion of abortion (including mine!) is formed on the fact that for those that are victims of rape or incest, or the health of the mother or baby is in question, or for example the mother is under 18 or even under 21, the time they need to have a safe solution to deal with an unplanned pregnancy.
However, I know that only about 3% of abortion happen for the reason above. The rest the nhs classify as lifestyle factors.
I’m sure many women may be masking issues by telling the motivating reason for the termination is just a lifestyle factor, but even so I still think many, many abortion take place because of poor planning and poor timing.
I’ve had 2 close friends have terminations in our late 20s, both of which went on to have children with the same partner a few years later. Although I supported their choice, I didn’t really understand it. They were both preoccupied with the idea that the timing wasn’t right- even though they wanted children and wanted children with the current partners.
I think we put far to much pressure of ourselves that we have to do things in the right order- so then when a pregnancy comes along that wasn’t on the timeline, we freak out- even if we are perfectly capable of parenting at that time.
I also think something most be going wrong with how we are approaching contraception, especially as the fastest growing segment of women needing abortion are 30+ and have ahead previous abortions. Can women not access contraception easily or could giving more education around ovulation cycles help this (this is pretty common place in countries like Germany from secondary school age, and women generally avoid sex when they’re ovulating- even when using another form of contraception)
I guess all in all I think it’s a really complex matter- and I don’t think we have it totally right in this country, and I find it a trivialisation to see my friends sharing handmaid tale’s pictures with ‘my body my choice’ tag lines...surely when a matter really is life or death, we shouldn’t simplify it as a women’s prerogative?
Or AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
BertrandRussell · 19/05/2019 14:45

Pinkyy- I have had miscarriages. I mourned the loss of my potential babies. They weren’t babies .

bojosmoralcompass · 19/05/2019 14:47

The anti-abortion lobby is anti women, it's as simple as that. Do any of these politicians passing laws reducing and extinguishing rights to safe abortions and trumpeting the rights of unborn babies give a toss when said babies are here? Extra rights for paid childcare and workplace flexibility so the mothers can work? Additional state benefits ,medical bills and so on. That's a big fat no.

Bere111 · 19/05/2019 14:51

For all the comments on here- abortion is a massive taboo in this country
How often has a colleague, or friend even, told they're having an abortion? They don’t.
I was a hr manager for 6 years for a global retail business, with a predominately female work force - in the 1000s of return to work interview I did, or sick leave processes I went through, no one wanted to tell me they had leave for an abortion.
As I said I have 2 friends that have had them, I know they were selective with who they told - for example, neither told their mums/ parents.
People don’t say, and people do t want to hear it, because we all know it a shit situation and not one to be celebrated.
Again - going back to the 2017 statistics (released by the government) there is a clear ethnic, geographic and income profile from those most likely needing an abortion. It’s not the women I’m seeing on Facebook saying ‘my uterus, my choice’ - it’s people with a lack of resource and few options, in a desperate situation.
I don’t think abortion is liberating these women, it’s giving a short term solution to a long term problem - that again looking at the data - they will likely need to access again because their circumstances aren’t changing.

OP posts:
MissMogwai · 19/05/2019 14:52

YABU of course it's woman's choice to opt out of the pregnancy if she wants.

For fucks sake are we going back in time or something?!

meow1989 · 19/05/2019 14:52

Yanbu to hold the opinion you hold.

YANBU to not have a termination if you dont want.

YABVU if you think you have any righyt to dictate what goes on with another woman's uterus because you're "not sure" you're comfortable with it.

Every time someone brings up the argument that women can choose to have safe sex it sounds as though theres hoards of devious women getting pregnant then changing their minds and having a jolly old abortion. Noone chooses this option lightly.

Myworstnightmare123 · 19/05/2019 14:53

For all the comments on here- abortion is a massive taboo in this country

I wonder fucking why Hmm
Because of people like @Pinky et al and to an extent, you OP

SlothMama · 19/05/2019 14:55

YABVU This decision was made by mostly men, they aren't the ones who have to give birth and raise a child. It's very easy for a man to walk away from a child. And it is disgusting that a raped woman would be expected to carry her rapists baby.

sheettent · 19/05/2019 14:56

@Bere111

How often has a colleague, or friend even, told they're having an abortion? They don’t.

I told about 17 people last night I've had an abortion. Some of them I'd never met before.

And I've had plenty of people tell me they're having or had one.

EnoughLifeLessons · 19/05/2019 14:56

Fuck off OP. You're what's wrong with the world. Wish you a naice life on your high mysoginistic woman-hating horse.

Bere111 · 19/05/2019 14:59

Meow - I’m not an MP, not am I writing to my MP asking for abortion reform.
Nor am I preaching to friends and family about abortion, or walking down the street with a placard.
So - I’m what way I’m dictating whether women should or shouldn’t have an abortion?
In many circumstances I totally understand why you’d have an abortion, and I would myself.
Some circumstances I don’t understand, and I think we haven’t got it right in the UK in how we perceive abortion.
As another poster said, I think we are so polarised as a society now we don’t allow ourselves to be on the fence about anything.
All I’ve seen on the Alabama issue is ‘it’s a women choice and right’ etc
I think that’s an oversimplification

OP posts:
TemporaryPermanent · 19/05/2019 15:00

I was pro choice until I became a mother. Now I'm REALLY pro choice.

I'm afraid I find your views really despicable and based on a very conditional attitude to human rights. I just hope you don't vote.

DianaPrincessOfThemyscira · 19/05/2019 15:01

YABU. I find it offensive that because your circumstances when you had an accidental pregnancy were ok, that means you seemingly have no empathy for those women that don’t want to continue for whatever reason.

Women don’t share because of opinions like yours - you will wrinkle your nose and judge as you see fit if the circumstances weren’t rape or the baby wouldn’t survive.

And I’m fully aware of Ireland and other countries where abortion is not legal - it’s very different to where it previously has been legal and is now being made illegal (which is effectively what this bill does).

Not to mention the criminalisation of women who’ve had a miscarriage, the visitation rights that rapists have, and the fact that it’s ok for an embryo - i.e. fertilised egg - to be discarded or used for research if it’s the product of IVF but not if it’s the product of being implanted in a body. How are they not considered ‘a life’?

GoldenPineapples · 19/05/2019 15:01

"I don’t think abortion is liberating these women, it’s giving a short term solution to a long term problem - that again looking at the data - they will likely need to access again because their circumstances aren’t changing."

I don't agree with this statement at all.

Lots of women go on into better circumstances after having a termination which they wouldn't have been able to escape from if they had given birth then.

Bere111 · 19/05/2019 15:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

GoldenPineapples · 19/05/2019 15:02

My phone doesn't like paragraphs apparently

MissMogwai · 19/05/2019 15:03

It's not oversimplified at all. It is the woman's right.

Would you be happy with a group of people deciding what you can and can't do with your body? Or deciding for your daughters or sisters, or any girl or woman for that matter.

BertrandRussell · 19/05/2019 15:04

“we don’t allow ourselves to be on the fence about anything.”

I’m on the fence about lots of things. Just not abortion. You can’t be on the fence about abortion- you either beleve that life begins at conception or you don’t.

meow1989 · 19/05/2019 15:04

Bere - then why does it matter to you what anyone else thinks, why start a thread and why ask for opinions?

joyfullittlehippo · 19/05/2019 15:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sheettent · 19/05/2019 15:06

I don’t think people are as open as you think, and also wondered how you managed to find the time to tell 17 people- were you having our leaflets or something?

You're actually a bit of a spiteful cow aren't you op? If you'd bothered to read my previous post, I was out with friends and a group of guys joined us.

With each post you make you make it more obviously how unpleasant you are.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 19/05/2019 15:07

I don’t think abortion is liberating these women, it’s giving a short term solution to a long term problem - that again looking at the data - they will likely need to access again because their circumstances aren’t changing.

How is it a short term solution? Having a child and bringing it up takes quite a long time.

Endofthedays · 19/05/2019 15:07

I’ve told very few people I’ve had miscarriages. It’s not like they’re topics that routinely come up in conversation.

ChristmasFluff · 19/05/2019 15:07

Additionally, making it harder to have an abortion won't stop desperate people having abortions. They'll just have unsafe abortions.

The cost of cleaning up a botched home abortion versus the cost of 2 pills? Are you advocating for that, OP?

And of course, what's the cost of the misery of those who don't want babies, being stuck bringing up children? And try the Stately Homes thread if you doubt the misery of being an unwanted child. Not every mother suddenly loves an unwanted child. Some of them stay unwanted their whole lives.

sheettent · 19/05/2019 15:07

I haven't told people because it's topical. I've always told people. Because I'm not ashamed. Despite bitches like you and others on this thread trying to make me feel bad.

GoldenPineapples · 19/05/2019 15:10

I don't know if anyone read Sally Fields autobiography which came out in the last year? In it she describes what happened when she got pregnant as a teen back in the 60s where she was driven to a house with her mother and stepfather and told to go in. She had to lay on a bed where a strange man performed an abortion on her and she also described feeling completely numb and scared, especially when she realized he was actually fondling her breasts too. 😔 She got back in the car and it was never spoken about again. .

I swear some people wouldn't be happy until we go back to that kind of backstreet level of abortion. As if they think abortion is a holiday anyway..