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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To be annoyed by anti-Alabama posts?

999 replies

Bere111 · 19/05/2019 10:41

For context, I’m not prolife or pro choice...i wouldn’t have an abortion myself but I know that largely because I’ve never been in those desperate circumstances, so equally would never judge someone who had.
But all the anti-Alabama posts I’ve seen this week by women in the UK I find pretty ill informed.
For example, most not knowing it is still banned in Northern Ireland- part of the UK.
Also, people saying it’s ‘healthcare’ - I don’t believe this is true. I think it should be a crisis service, and making it sound routine trivialises it for me.
People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right. It’s a women choice to get pregnant or not get pregnant of course, but unless that girl or women fell pregnant through no choice of their own (in which can of course she should have access to abortion) I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out.
I fell pregnant by accident with ds1, I was very newly married, had a well paid job and owned a house but was younger then I’d planned to be (27)- yet I had 3 people ask ‘god, what are you going to do???’ Which I found bizarre.
Most people’s opinion of abortion (including mine!) is formed on the fact that for those that are victims of rape or incest, or the health of the mother or baby is in question, or for example the mother is under 18 or even under 21, the time they need to have a safe solution to deal with an unplanned pregnancy.
However, I know that only about 3% of abortion happen for the reason above. The rest the nhs classify as lifestyle factors.
I’m sure many women may be masking issues by telling the motivating reason for the termination is just a lifestyle factor, but even so I still think many, many abortion take place because of poor planning and poor timing.
I’ve had 2 close friends have terminations in our late 20s, both of which went on to have children with the same partner a few years later. Although I supported their choice, I didn’t really understand it. They were both preoccupied with the idea that the timing wasn’t right- even though they wanted children and wanted children with the current partners.
I think we put far to much pressure of ourselves that we have to do things in the right order- so then when a pregnancy comes along that wasn’t on the timeline, we freak out- even if we are perfectly capable of parenting at that time.
I also think something most be going wrong with how we are approaching contraception, especially as the fastest growing segment of women needing abortion are 30+ and have ahead previous abortions. Can women not access contraception easily or could giving more education around ovulation cycles help this (this is pretty common place in countries like Germany from secondary school age, and women generally avoid sex when they’re ovulating- even when using another form of contraception)
I guess all in all I think it’s a really complex matter- and I don’t think we have it totally right in this country, and I find it a trivialisation to see my friends sharing handmaid tale’s pictures with ‘my body my choice’ tag lines...surely when a matter really is life or death, we shouldn’t simplify it as a women’s prerogative?
Or AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
mollysshadow · 19/05/2019 13:29

Forced birth ???? Jesus Christ Angry

SchadenfreudePersonified · 19/05/2019 13:30

These states that are bringing in these strict abortion laws don't give a FUCK about babies, children or their well being

This ^

The adoption system isn’t overwhelmed it’s underwhelmed- there’s a huge shortage of children, particularly babies, needing adoptive homes.

It is not one woman's job to provide a baby for another woman - no matter how desperate that other woman may be to have a child.

And there is no guarantee that an adoptive family will cherish the baby they get.

I lived next to a couple who had two sone. The elder was adopted, and then the wife fell pregnant (as frequently happens) and the husband didn't want anything to do with the older boy - it wasn't "his" child. Where the younger had everything given to him, the elder had to provide for himself if he wanted any luxuries - their bikes were a case in point. The younger had a beautiful and expensive bike given to him for his birthday, his adoptive brother got a paper round and saved up to buy himself a second-hand one.

The emotional pain this caused was enormous - that child's confidence was destroyed. He became quite a difficult child as he got older because he felt so unloved.

I found this out when I complimented the mother on her adoptive child's lovely manners and said what a pleasure he was to talk to. She burst into tears and thanked me - apparently most people spent all their time complaining about him (cheekiness, minor vandalism etc). She told me the whole story and said how much it broke her heart because she loved him so much, but her husband didn't want anything to do with him. ( I'd never had a problem with him- he'd always been really lovely when we spoke to him, possibly because he loved our dogs and took every opportunity to pet them, and we encouraged it.)

Maybe this is a rare occurrence - I hope it is - but I would hate to think that I'd given up a child of mine to a life of lonely misery.

MrsFoxPlus4 · 19/05/2019 13:30

YABU, iv lurked a lot of the boards and the NI abortion laws have been discussed In depth. People can still be angry that it’s happning else where. You also don’t get to decide if someone’s reason is good enough for an abortion or not everyone’s circumstances are different.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 19/05/2019 13:30

I don't think engaging with a forced birthed is worth a moment of a woman's time, don't feed it.

Myworstnightmare123 · 19/05/2019 13:30

OP YABU.
It’s a women choice to get pregnant or not get pregnant of course, but unless that girl or women fell pregnant through no choice of their own (in which can of course she should have access to abortion) I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out

An unbelievably stupid and uninformed observation.

AnyFucker · 19/05/2019 13:31

Pinkyy....are you offering to raise all these potential children ? What with you understanding poverty 'n' all

Mirali · 19/05/2019 13:32

Jennifer Worth who worked as a midwife in the East End in the 50s said you can never ban abortion, only safe abortion. Hope we never go back to the days of women feeling like they have to have back street abortions. Rich women just paid a doctor to do it

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 19/05/2019 13:32

@PattyCow fair enough, it was a cheap shot but 'human life begins at conception' is extremely triggering to this lapsed catholic for a variety of reasons.

Cottonwoolmouth · 19/05/2019 13:32

Some posters seem not to understand that s society which bans and criminalises termination is also anti-contraception

Which is a fair point. I don’t think we are a million miles away from contraception laws being brought in if we start opposing abortions.

However, I don’t want this thread to go because it raises some issues that might be uncomfortable to talk about.

I’ve had an abortion when I was 18. Already had a baby and was skint. Was just starting a course to get me in to work to get my life back on track.

A friend of mine has had five abortions since she was 14 up in to her mid 30s.

I find that uncomfortable to justify. Can a terminations be used as contraceptives? However her reasons are as good as mine.

At what point would you support an abortion? Morning after pill, two weeks, 12 weeks, three months, five months? full term?

Is it all or nothing? If you support abortions up to 12 weeks shouldn’t you feel the same at full term or even a day before you are due?

I know I’d be horrified if some one did that.

I know it will be a sad day for my girls future if the U.K brought these laws in. I’d be scared at where this would be going and possibly consider leaving tbh.

HBStowe · 19/05/2019 13:32

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Oliversmumsarmy · 19/05/2019 13:33

I wonder how many of the people posting are able to do so because at one point a predecessor was unable to get an abortion.

I know I wouldn’t exist, and therefore neither would my children, or any line of my family going forward if abortion was available on demand when my mother got pregnant.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 19/05/2019 13:33

Sorry - my previous post went up twice - don't know how.

acatcalledjohn · 19/05/2019 13:33

These threads make me want to weep.

shouldn't be used as late contraception

Right. So you want to police the right to abortion. Can you imagine that conversation:

GP: So why do you want an abortion?
Patient: My contraception failed.
GP: You must not have used it properly. I can't offer you an abortion for that.
Patient: But I did use it properly. I use contraception to not get pregnant!
GP: Well, them's the rules. I get to decide whether you are worthy of an abortion. Oh, by the way, you are have passed the six week mark now. Come back for your normal scans when they are due. You'll be going full term now unless your life is at risk, in which case call 999. Enjoy pregnancy!

If a woman doesn't have the right to abort then men should not have the right to fuck off and check out mentally and financially. But the latter will never change.

Fuck off. Policing shit like this is dangerous.

PoorRichard · 19/05/2019 13:34

The combination of being ill-informed, unimaginative and right wing is particularly evident in your posts, OP.

Bere111 · 19/05/2019 13:34

@bumpitybumper

I think the consequences of raising a child born through rape and incest are different.
Emotionally raising a child conceived through a rape is incomprehensible, and has huge long term implications for mother and child.
In terms of incest, as well as the emotional burden, there are massive medical risks to a child conceived through incest - both immediate and long term (even their children for example).
So I think it’s logical to see why the above has more gravity then a women having an abortion whilst in a stable consensual relationship.

OP posts:
WestBerlin · 19/05/2019 13:35

The alternative to legal abortion isn’t birth, it’s illegal abortion. Already nearly half of all abortions carried out worldwide are done so in countries where it is illegal.

Anti abortionists don’t ‘save lives’, they just deny women safe abortion and force them into dangerous situations that can easily cost them their lives.

In regards to predecessors - my mother is pro choice.

Bumpitybumper · 19/05/2019 13:35

@Pinkyyy
I'm certainly not scoffing at poverty. So you think it's acceptable to kill one child in order to give a better life to another?
I think the focus should be on quality and not the quantity of life. I trust women to make sensible decisions and I think that it's very sensible to consider the impact that another pregnancy and child would have on her existing family.

Do you think an embryo is the same as a child? Do you eat meat? Do you avoid killing all living beings including insects?

Oliversmumsarmy · 19/05/2019 13:35

For surgical abortions occurring closer to the 24 week mark (which are very rare), surgical implements may be used to help remove surround tissue

What is surround tissue?

sheettent · 19/05/2019 13:37

I had an abortion precisely because I had no money and nowhere to live @Pinkyyy . In my case the baby was very much wanted. I was terrified and alone and it seemed like my only option.

Do you honestly think I skipped in there on my lunch break and skipped out all free and happy?

I've posted about it before on Mumsnet, it was before the days of medical abortions so it was surgical. I wasn't sedated and they didn't give me enough of whatever they were meant to to make me unaware of what was going on. I came completely to my senses halfway through the procedure. I was screaming and begging them to stop but it was too far gone so they held me down.

I went outside and sat on a sun longer with 5 or 6 other sobbing young women. The nurse that came and handed out paracetamol was so unkind. I'll never forget her rough manner.

Then it became infected and I collapsed in a Sainsbury's and got blue lighted to hospital.

It all culminated in me trying to take my own life and being admitted to the care of a hospital mental health crisis team.

And this appalling treatment (of which I've heard similar stories) was at a popular London clinic. I can't image going to some back alley doctor. Women will die. All for some political posturing and point scoring.

So thank you for your comment on how it's the worst possible reason to have a termination. And thank you for those of you who've commented that women are using it as birth control. You have no clue of someone else's story. And no fucking empathy or soul.

Endofthedays · 19/05/2019 13:37

I wouldn’t exist if both my parents hadn’t attended a folk club on the same night, but I don’t think non attendance at folk clubs should lead to a prison sentence.

WestBerlin · 19/05/2019 13:37

The alternative to legal abortion isn’t birth, it’s illegal abortion. Already nearly half of all abortions carried out worldwide are done so in countries where it is illegal.

Anti abortionists don’t ‘save lives’, they just deny women safe abortion and force them into dangerous situations that can easily cost them their lives.

dodgeballchamp · 19/05/2019 13:38

pinky you’re just repeating rhetoric designed to provoke an emotional reaction with no basis in fact. But if you want to play that game: I had a surgical abortion through choice because the medical one sounded most unpleasant for me, so I decided to wait and get a surgical where I could be asleep and it would be painless. If they had to tear the foetus’s limbs off to get it out, guess what? I DON’T CARE! I just wanted it gone! It isn’t a person!

Bere111 · 19/05/2019 13:38

@bumpitybump

An embryo becomes a foetus at 6weeks gestation

At as little as 12 weeks a foetus is identifiable as a human baby

When I had my miscarriage no one said ‘sorry you lost an embryo’, most people acknowledged that id lost a baby, and rightly so.

OP posts:
titchy · 19/05/2019 13:38

The adoption system isn’t overwhelmed it’s underwhelmed- there’s a huge shortage of children, particularly babies, needing adoptive homes.

You say that like it's a problem....

teyem · 19/05/2019 13:39

That is, hands down, the most entertaining pro-life argument I have ever seen oliversmum.