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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To be annoyed by anti-Alabama posts?

999 replies

Bere111 · 19/05/2019 10:41

For context, I’m not prolife or pro choice...i wouldn’t have an abortion myself but I know that largely because I’ve never been in those desperate circumstances, so equally would never judge someone who had.
But all the anti-Alabama posts I’ve seen this week by women in the UK I find pretty ill informed.
For example, most not knowing it is still banned in Northern Ireland- part of the UK.
Also, people saying it’s ‘healthcare’ - I don’t believe this is true. I think it should be a crisis service, and making it sound routine trivialises it for me.
People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right. It’s a women choice to get pregnant or not get pregnant of course, but unless that girl or women fell pregnant through no choice of their own (in which can of course she should have access to abortion) I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out.
I fell pregnant by accident with ds1, I was very newly married, had a well paid job and owned a house but was younger then I’d planned to be (27)- yet I had 3 people ask ‘god, what are you going to do???’ Which I found bizarre.
Most people’s opinion of abortion (including mine!) is formed on the fact that for those that are victims of rape or incest, or the health of the mother or baby is in question, or for example the mother is under 18 or even under 21, the time they need to have a safe solution to deal with an unplanned pregnancy.
However, I know that only about 3% of abortion happen for the reason above. The rest the nhs classify as lifestyle factors.
I’m sure many women may be masking issues by telling the motivating reason for the termination is just a lifestyle factor, but even so I still think many, many abortion take place because of poor planning and poor timing.
I’ve had 2 close friends have terminations in our late 20s, both of which went on to have children with the same partner a few years later. Although I supported their choice, I didn’t really understand it. They were both preoccupied with the idea that the timing wasn’t right- even though they wanted children and wanted children with the current partners.
I think we put far to much pressure of ourselves that we have to do things in the right order- so then when a pregnancy comes along that wasn’t on the timeline, we freak out- even if we are perfectly capable of parenting at that time.
I also think something most be going wrong with how we are approaching contraception, especially as the fastest growing segment of women needing abortion are 30+ and have ahead previous abortions. Can women not access contraception easily or could giving more education around ovulation cycles help this (this is pretty common place in countries like Germany from secondary school age, and women generally avoid sex when they’re ovulating- even when using another form of contraception)
I guess all in all I think it’s a really complex matter- and I don’t think we have it totally right in this country, and I find it a trivialisation to see my friends sharing handmaid tale’s pictures with ‘my body my choice’ tag lines...surely when a matter really is life or death, we shouldn’t simplify it as a women’s prerogative?
Or AIBU?

OP posts:
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7
Biancadelrioisback · 19/05/2019 13:17

Everyone always talks about the extreme cases (rape, life or death for mother or baby, too poor/living on a shoestring etc) but there are plenty of women out there who just don't want to be mother's. You can use all the contraception and can still fall pregnant. Even if you have a good job and have a living partner, if you just don't want a baby, you should have that option. My best friend is like this. She actively does not want children. She has had a very bad reaction (nearly died) to anesthetic before so wouldn't have a hysterectomy, so she relies on contraception. She does not want to be a mother. Why should she be forced to if she fell pregnant?

RussianSpamBot · 19/05/2019 13:18

The major part of your objection seems to be that you don't agree with what they're saying. You claim not to agree with that's happening in Alabama but then also say you don't accept that when a woman is pregnant she should be free simply to opt out.

So suck it up princess. They're allowed to disagree with you, especially when you apparently aren't happy about the existence of the rights they have to bodiliy autonomy. YABVU.

mollysshadow · 19/05/2019 13:18

Any state that has the death penalty is not pro-life.

Pinkyyy · 19/05/2019 13:18

Is the fetus paying the bills? Putting food on the table for existing children? It's quite easy to understand, actually.

So do the existing children pay bills? Lack of money is just about the worst reason I can imagine for ending a life.

HBStowe · 19/05/2019 13:19

How can a woman value a job over a human life?

Because like it or not, without a job your options for providing food, shelter and clothing to your child (not to mention any other existing children she may already have) are pretty limited - especially in Alabama, which has virtually no welfare state.

Human life begins at conception.

Don’t confuse your opinions for facts.

whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 19/05/2019 13:19

FWIW, I have a hereditary genetic condition that causes chronic illness and has eradicated my quality of life. Even in my situation, I am unsure if I would choose to terminate an unplanned pregnancy.

Key word there is choose! That's the main point of the argument. We, as women, should be the only people making decisions about our bodies. That's it. It's as complicated as it gets.

When men evolve the ability to carry a pregnancy, then they can crack on and participate in the narrative. But until then, it's not anything to do with them!

elsabadogigante · 19/05/2019 13:20

YABU. I will never understand why anyone would want to force a person who doesn't want to be pregnant remain pregnant. That's fucking barbaric.

Catchingbentcoppers · 19/05/2019 13:20

YABVU. People haven't missed the point of your post at all, your words are there for all to see. Don't try to dress them up with subsequent posts, it's disingenuous.

No woman should be forced to have a baby they don't want to have. Not. One. Woman.

Pinkyyy · 19/05/2019 13:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Peanutbutterforever · 19/05/2019 13:23

YABU to expect reasoned debate on this topic. There is a MN deemed 'correct' opinion and all others make you wrong/ evil/ whatever.

WestBerlin · 19/05/2019 13:23

Pinky - sure, wanting to avoid poverty for yourself and/or existing children is definitely a terrible reason to get an abortion Hmm

Still none of your damn business.

Loopytiles · 19/05/2019 13:23

So you would like to ban abortions and seek to force women to remain pregnant and give birth then, Pinky?

BertrandRussell · 19/05/2019 13:23

“So do the existing children pay bills? Lack of money is just about the worst reason I can imagine for ending a life.”
Really? What a distinct lack of imagination you do have...

AnyFucker · 19/05/2019 13:23

24 weeks Pinkyy ?

Bumpitybumper · 19/05/2019 13:24

@Pinkyyy
So do the existing children pay bills? Lack of money is just about the worst reason I can imagine for ending a life
What a ridiculous statement. Children die everyday all around the world as a direct result of lack of money. Poverty is not something to be scoffed at. Neither is a parent that wants to provide their children with opportunity and resources.

mollysshadow · 19/05/2019 13:24

Banning abortion won't stop it. Prohibition never works.

PinguDance · 19/05/2019 13:25

@Bere111 - that article about Germany and abortion suggests that they are only now looking to redact a law that was introduced by actual Hitler that makes it illegal for doctors to tell women they perform abortions. That has recently been used and resulted in a fine. It also goes on to point out that abortions aren’t covered by the German health insurance system, as I believe is the case for gynaecology in general.

So, err, no. That isn’t good and progressive to me.

InglouriousBasterd · 19/05/2019 13:26

I’ve been pregnant twice. Once with my daughter, after one occasion of young and naive unprotected sex. It turned out great.

Second time I was one of those women in their 30s in an abusive relationship. Again, one-time - because he removed the contraception. At the abortion clinic he tried to pay the nurses to rush me through faster. As abusive as you can get...but I should have gone against him and risked mine and my daughter’s life? He had warned me that if I ever hurt him, he’d kill me. I didn’t deserve that abortion because other people can’t have babies easily?

Yeah, YABU.

BertrandRussell · 19/05/2019 13:26

“There is a MN deemed 'correct' opinion and all others make you wrong/ evil/ whatever.”

Well, I have been thinking about this subject for a long time, so a Mumsnet thread is unlikely to change my mind. But I don’t know whether my view is the “correct” one according to Mumsnet- because I don’t know what that is.

sheettent · 19/05/2019 13:27

As usual the op and people that agree with her ignore many posts and cherry pick bits they feel like their shitty argument can stand up against.

There are other threads on this op. As I'm sure you know. You're just spreading hate as your ilk are want to do.

I'm out. If you could come over here and see the panic and sadness women and parents of girls are suffering right now (and I'm in a progressive State that's making big moves to widen access terminations) I'd like to think you shut up with your nonsense for a bit. Probably not though. It's not just men that hate women anymore. Under his fucking eye.

dodgeballchamp · 19/05/2019 13:27

Hi, “rabid pro choicer” here!

In answer to some of the ridiculous questions: yes I support euthanasia.

I believe abortion should be freely accessible to ANY woman, for ANY reason, as early as possible and as late as necessary. In theory, does that mean she should be able to abort an 8-month pregnancy? Yes, because I trust women’s judgement. For as long as the foetus is inside a woman’s body, its a parasite. Why on earth should it be afforded any rights above a living human woman? What happens if that foetus is born female, and goes on to have an unwanted pregnancy itself in adulthood? I don’t hear all you pro lifers advocating for its rights then.

I’ve had an abortion. It was an easy choice. There was no trauma. I simply don’t want kids. Things I value more than a bunch of cells that would eventually grow into a human include my job, being able to spend my money on myself, and having a nice lie in every weekend. I don’t regret it or even think about it.

It’s routine healthcare. It’s a growth of cells feeding off your body, and when you really stop and think about the fact that some people want to afford a partially formed embryo with no reasoning power or access to the outside world, more rights than a living human... it’s ridiculous. Cancerous tumours also contain human DNA, should we ban the removal of those as well?

SchadenfreudePersonified · 19/05/2019 13:27

These states that are bringing in these strict abortion laws don't give a FUCK about babies, children or their well being

This ^

The adoption system isn’t overwhelmed it’s underwhelmed- there’s a huge shortage of children, particularly babies, needing adoptive homes.

It is not one woman's job to provide a baby for another woman - no matter how desperate that other woman may be to have a child.

And there is no guarantee that an adoptive family will cherish the baby they get.

I lived next to a couple who had two sone. The elder was adopted, and then the wife fell pregnant (as frequently happens) and the husband didn't want anything to do with the older boy - it wasn't "his" child. Where the younger had everything given to him, the elder had to provide for himself if he wanted any luxuries - their bikes were a case in point. The younger had a beautiful and expensive bike given to him for his birthday, his adoptive brother got a paper round and saved up to buy himself a second-hand one.

The emotional pain this caused was enormous - that child's confidence was destroyed. He became quite a difficult child as he got older because he felt so unloved.

I found this out when I complimented the mother on her adoptive child's lovely manners and said what a pleasure he was to talk to. She burst into tears and thanked me - apparently most people spent all their time complaining about him (cheekiness, minor vandalism etc). She told me the whole story and said how much it broke her heart because she loved him so much, but her husband didn't want anything to do with him. ( I'd never had a problem with him- he'd always been really lovely when we spoke to him, possibly because he loved our dogs and took every opportunity to pet them, and we encouraged it.)

Maybe this is a rare occurrence - I hope it is - but I would hate to think that I'd given up a child of mine to a life of lonely misery.

Pinkyyy · 19/05/2019 13:27

So you would like to ban abortions and seek to force women to remain pregnant and give birth then, Pinky?

Yes this is exactly what I believe should happen.

Poverty is not something to be scoffed at. Neither is a parent that wants to provide their children with opportunity and resources.

I'm certainly not scoffing at poverty. So you think it's acceptable to kill one child in order to give a better life to another?

Pinkyyy · 19/05/2019 13:29

In theory, does that mean she should be able to abort an 8-month pregnancy? Yes, because I trust women’s judgement. For as long as the foetus is inside a woman’s body, its a parasite

I'm at a loss for words. A baby is now a parasite? Many children are born at 8 months, would it be acceptable to kill them?

cakeandchampagne · 19/05/2019 13:29

My body, my choice.

That is not complicated.