To be annoyed by anti-Alabama posts?

[Bere111]

For context, I’m not prolife or pro choice...i wouldn’t have an abortion myself but I know that largely because I’ve never been in those desperate circumstances, so equally would never judge someone who had.
But all the anti-Alabama posts I’ve seen this week by women in the UK I find pretty ill informed.
For example, most not knowing it is still banned in Northern Ireland- part of the UK.
Also, people saying it’s ‘healthcare’ - I don’t believe this is true. I think it should be a crisis service, and making it sound routine trivialises it for me.
People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right. It’s a women choice to get pregnant or not get pregnant of course, but unless that girl or women fell pregnant through no choice of their own (in which can of course she should have access to abortion) I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out.
I fell pregnant by accident with ds1, I was very newly married, had a well paid job and owned a house but was younger then I’d planned to be (27)- yet I had 3 people ask ‘god, what are you going to do???’ Which I found bizarre.
Most people’s opinion of abortion (including mine!) is formed on the fact that for those that are victims of rape or incest, or the health of the mother or baby is in question, or for example the mother is under 18 or even under 21, the time they need to have a safe solution to deal with an unplanned pregnancy.
However, I know that only about 3% of abortion happen for the reason above. The rest the nhs classify as lifestyle factors.
I’m sure many women may be masking issues by telling the motivating reason for the termination is just a lifestyle factor, but even so I still think many, many abortion take place because of poor planning and poor timing.
I’ve had 2 close friends have terminations in our late 20s, both of which went on to have children with the same partner a few years later. Although I supported their choice, I didn’t really understand it. They were both preoccupied with the idea that the timing wasn’t right- even though they wanted children and wanted children with the current partners.
I think we put far to much pressure of ourselves that we have to do things in the right order- so then when a pregnancy comes along that wasn’t on the timeline, we freak out- even if we are perfectly capable of parenting at that time.
I also think something most be going wrong with how we are approaching contraception, especially as the fastest growing segment of women needing abortion are 30+ and have ahead previous abortions. Can women not access contraception easily or could giving more education around ovulation cycles help this (this is pretty common place in countries like Germany from secondary school age, and women generally avoid sex when they’re ovulating- even when using another form of contraception)
I guess all in all I think it’s a really complex matter- and I don’t think we have it totally right in this country, and I find it a trivialisation to see my friends sharing handmaid tale’s pictures with ‘my body my choice’ tag lines...surely when a matter really is life or death, we shouldn’t simplify it as a women’s prerogative?
Or AIBU?

@pingudance

Read the article. That’s saying it’s softening a law, to allow the advertising of abortion services- which is a good thing, right?

My point was Germany is more progressive about maternity, contraception and sexual health then we are- you’ve just shared an article to reinforce that point. Thanks.

Here they come...

As late as necessary means just that - the difference between me and the poster continually posting the same question is that I trust women. I don't believe women are or would be gaily skipping into the doctors to terminate an 8 month pregnancy because they've suddenly realised they can't afford their extension, FFS. Very late stage termination is usually because the foetus has a condition that is incompatible with life.

Give women control of their own bodies and trust them.

It is my body therefore it should be my decision whether to have an abortion. It is my body that will have to carry a baby for nine months, my body that will go through the pain and possible life threatening/life changing injuries actually giving birth. Me whose career will be affected, me whose earning capacity, pension etc will be affected for the rest of my life by virtue of being a mother. Therefore I don't think it is unreasonable that only me gets to decide if I want to go through with a pregnancy.

Most people I know who have had terminations, myself included, did not make the decision lightly, but did so because they were in a hopless position, where often the child would not have had a good quality of life and may have ended up in care.

It seems incomprehensible to me that in the 21stC so many states in the US want to return to the middle ages when it comes to a women's right to an abortion.

This is why we should never take democracy and women's rights for granted, we need to be vigilant that our hard fought for rights are not diminished or taken away from us.

If you’re a religious fundamentalist.

@Bere111 I live in the States. I have friends that are social workers. There are many unloved and unwanted children.

These states that are bringing in these strict abortion laws don't give a FUCK about babies, children or their well being. The couple of people i know that are supporting these laws are against any free health care, food stamps, support for children. They also both want the local school shut down so they pay less taxes. The kids would have to travel 3 hours a day to the nearest school.

These scum don't give a flying shit about children, they are feeling like women are getting too much power and need to be put back down where they belong. I HEARD this from their own mouths with my own ears.

It is real life Gilead here.

@AnyFucker chucking out time at mass...

So reading more about Germany and abortion suggests its not a good comparison OP. Seemingly it’s not covered by healthcare for a start so straight away that’s one reason why rated might be lower. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thelocal.de/20190130/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-proposed-changes-to-germanys-abortion-law/amp

Also ‘human life begins at conception’ - this is an opinion, usually religious in origin, and there’s no reason why a religious opinion should be enshrined in law to affect everybody.

‘My body my choice’ is absolutely accurate. As long as fetuses require a womb to survive, the owner of said womb gets the deciding vote.

Whether they’re for ‘lifestyle reasons’ or not - nothing to do with me, nothing to do with you. You get to make your decisions over your own body in relation to your own moral code over the issue, not anyone else’s.

Indeed, Lonny

Swivel eyed loons ahoy

Mumsnet has been jumped on by US (and UK) pro lifers and mnhq need to do something about these goody threads.

@klendraa This is why, in the UK at least AFAIK, have legal time limits on abortion. At the moment it's up until a foetus is deemed able to survive outside the uterus, albeit with significant medical attention. After that, it's against the law. I personally feel that's appropriate for the majority of circumstances, where it becomes a viable life in its own right (and not before then). However, in some circumstances, a later termination may be deemed necessary. I am not familiar with those circumstances but I am an individual with only my narrow perspective, as are you, and cannot speak for all cases, so I won't. It's a complex issue, far more so than you'd like to acknowledge. Tbh, putting abortion and murder in the same bracket is disgustingly ignorant.

The adoption system isn’t overwhelmed it’s underwhelmed- there’s a huge shortage of children, particularly babies, needing adoptive homes.

You mean white, healthy babies?

Still not a reason to force a woman to lose her body autonomy and risk massive health complications so someone else can have a baby.

I myself know of three babies who were unwanted and have gone in to a horrific care system. No hordes of parents waiting to take them.

This is all conjecture and bullshit. And I'm SICK of people who don't even live in the States 'telling it like it is' when you have no clue what it's like.

As mentioned up thread, are radical pro choice supporters as pro euthanasia.

Do you mean in humans? If a person with a terminal illness or in constant pain has made an INFORMED decision to end their life with dignity then yes.

Also, what do you consider to me a radical pro choice supporter?

@sheettent

Mmn, yes an echo chamber. Where only one opinion is shown, yes.

I think people have totally missed the point of my post...Do I think abortion should be legal and accessible to all women? YES

Umm, you said

People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right

I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out.

we shouldn’t simplify it as a women’s prerogative

You can't complain that people are "missing the point" of your posts when you can't seem to make up your mind. So you simultaneously believe ALL women should have access to abortions but it shouldn't be their choice, it's not a womans perogative and women shouldn't be able to "opt out" of pregnancy....ok then

Thanks for replying so you believe women can abort right up until they deliver ? Okay.

Did I say that? And this attempt at a "gotcha" is fucking lame, by the way. I guarantee you that absolutely no woman anywhere gets to nine months, 'til the damn baby is crowning and thinks "gonna abort this sucker instead lmao.."

How can a woman value a job over a human life?

Is the fetus paying the bills? Putting food on the table for existing children? It's quite easy to understand, actually.

If Alabama laws are based on life begins at conception, why was IVF not also banned? Most of those embryos will be thrown away or used for research.

It seems as if Alabama is anti women not pro life.

99% of people on Mumsnet find your opinions abhorrent and upsetting @klendraa

Where only one opinion is shown klendraa?

@LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett well that's insulting and it's Catholic's aren't the driving force in Alabama...born again Christians are.

@acus

I’ve never said I support alabama?

The statement you’ve quoted was in response as to why I don't think the Gilead reference are rational, when statistically we know most women having abortion haven’t been raped or held captive - like the handmaids.

I find this debate weird for three main reasons:

Personally I think the whole focus on rape and incest a bit odd. From what I can tell most pro-lifers are against abortion as they believe that life starts at the point of conception and they fundamentally believe that it is wrong for the mother to have the power to end that life. If you genuinely hold that belief then surely abortion is wrong irrespective of how that feutus came to exist in the first place? I think that's why the people that I least understand are those that are generally opposed to abortion but make concessions for cases of rape and incest. It just seems such a conflicted view that lurches from focussing on the rights of the unborn child to those of the mother depending on some moral judgement as to whether the mother deserves to be able to end the pregnancy. It almost creates two classes of pregnant women where only the ones who didn't actively choose to engage in sexual activity are allowed abortions and the other fallen women are deemed not worthy enough because they are partly to blame for their situation

I also struggle to understand people who claim that an embryo is equivalent to a new born baby. I read an interesting post on Instagram that asked those who held this view if they would save a Petri dish containing an embryo or a new born baby if both were in a mortal peril and you only had the opportunity to save one. The implication was obvious that most people would unthinkingly save the new born baby and that's because instinctively we all do know the difference between an embryo that has the potential to grow into a baby and a fully formed human.

Finally it is also weird to me that people focus on the heartbeat and how that represent precious life but then seem to be meat eaters and have a complete disregard for the insects that they may trample on accidentally or the vermin they terminate. All of these creatures have heartbeats too however they somehow don't count.

YABU. I will never understand why anyone would want to force a person who doesn't want to be pregnant remain pregnant. That's fucking barbaric.