To cut my nose off to spite my face just to make a point? Work related.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I’m feeling so torn about something that’s happening at work....

I’m a nurse and for the last 6 months I’ve been starting to implement a massive change to one of the services that we provide and it has got the potential to be something really amazing. It involves new policies being written, new care plans being created and it means giving some teaching to other members of staff and doctors - in other departments as well as my own. I’m doing it alongside my Manager but it’s my “baby” as such and implementing it and all the changes that go along with it is definitely above my pay grade. However, it’s something I’m really passionate about and so I have thrown myself into it.

A month or so ago there came an opportunity for a promotion so myself and two other nurses went for it. I was by far the most experienced and maybe I naively thought that all the work I’d been doing on the new project would earn me a step up the pay scale.

However, they gave the position to another nurse and although I really get on with him, he’s been qualified 10 years less than me, and is not particularly thought highly of by other staff in a professional capacity. As a person he’s a really nice guy, I socialise with him out of work sometimes with other colleagues and I generally have nothing against him.

I was understandably very hurt though when he got the job over me and although I know NHS interviews are points based and so he obviously said more buzz words in the interview than I did but it still feels so unfair.

My issue is that my Manager has been in touch to ask how far along I’ve gotten with implementing the new changes to the service that I’ve been working on and asking when we can meet up to discuss what my next steps are to getting the changes put into practice.

I honestly feel like telling her I’m done with it and that if I’m not deemed to be “senior staff material” then why should I be doing all this work for her benefit?

It sounds really petty I know. It just feels like I’m being taken advantage of and if there’s no reward or recognition for any of this work I’ve been doing then what’s the point?

I feel like telling her to have her newly appointed senior staff member do it because I don’t see why I should put myself out anymore (I know how childish I sound).

It’s so hard because it’s a project I’m passionate about but at the same time I just feel so angry.

My DH absolutely thinks I should tell them to shove it.

But am I cutting off my nose to spite my face by no longer doing something I’m passionate about just to make a point?

I don’t know. I feel confused and torn.

Ask them why you did not get the job. Make it clear that you want promotion and ask what you need to do to get it and how this project falls into that context. Call me bitter, but where I work 'have a dick' is pretty much beneficial if not necessary.

I think carrying on with the project will be best in the long run and should hopefully give you (even more) good steading for future promotions. It will also show you have handled this gracefully

However I would suggest a one to one with your manager to discuss development opportunities. Ask for feedback on the interview so you know where to improve on next time. Point out the work you are doing is above your pay grade.

Dropping it all wouldn't look good and won't serve you well but I would definitely have the discussion so they know you are aware that the extra work is above your grade, you know your worth and you are serious about progressing.

It does seem very unfair but you have already puts lots of work in so it would be even worse if someone else was able to swoop in and take the credit. Also, this will not be the only promotion available to you. Do the project, make sure it is successful and then go for other promotions.

Get some interview practice for next time so you don't miss out on something that is rightfully yours. However, the interview process sounds very unfair. Selling yourself well at interview should not be the main factor in promotion, especially an internal promotion when the panel will have access to knowledge about how the candidates actually perform at work.

Do oyur work use any kind of personal development plans? If not then make your own - clearly showing where you want to be and the steps you think you need to get there. Seek input from senior staff on it.

This was me! I spat my dummy out and left. Which I bitterly regret. People with higher emotional intelligence always do better at work. I obviously needed to work on mine.

I’d ask though if you can why you was passed over.

See it through and at least it will be something to add to your belt when you go for promotion again. You might be put forward for something much bigger than what you expect.

I know how demoralising it is though!

The one thing I would advise is let as many people as you can know that you were driving this change, this is your project.

I'd think long term - finish the project (sounds really interesting!) take the credit for it, and put that on your CV to get a job elsewhere.

Make sure it is very clear that this is your project, not your manager's. Also ask why you missed out on the promotion. Hopefully you can use this project to get a promotion soon.

Absolutely go for what you’re doing, keep at it. ALSO say at your catch up, listen I’m very upset and also concerned that I lost out on this promotion to a more junior colleague, and I’d like to investigate what happened with me so that I can do better in future.

Imagine if it’s just that you need some interview training to hit those buzz words? Then you can finish your project, have some training and be ready to slay in the next interview coming along.

As an ex manager in a totally different field, I would be so upset if a reportee junked a passion project because they were in a huff about not getting a promotion, and I’ve definitely had a situation where someone 100% thought they were enititled to a job (my job!! over mat leave), but they weren’t, and one of the reasons was that they always took everything personally, would have sulks and tantrums, and couldn’t be relied upon to be 100% professional. She stormed the MDs office in hysterics demanding to know why the job wasn’t hers, which as I then pointed out to her made her look a bit crazy and melodramatic - hardly promotion material. If she had said to me, what do I need to do, and executed a passion project well, I would have LOVED to promote her.

On the other hand, if you suspect your management is genuinely holding you down, quietly and professionally investigate higher up. ‘I was just wondering’ ‘feel a little bit concerned’ etc.

Do you want someone else taking credit for your baby as you call it though?

Id talk to the manager about the promotion but wouldt drop the project

Totally what @noeyedeer said:

My friend had a similar scenario (not nursing), other person appointed for promotion. She too felt like saying, "stick your job." What she actually did is go to the higher managers and ask why she didn't get the promotion It turned out that her immediate boss had blocked it, as he felt she was too valuable to lose from his team. Higher managers sorted out a promotion and more pay.

Could you talk to your higher managers and ask for feedback?

If if you are screaming inside about what bastards they are, go into the feedback request with an approach of -I'm confused about why I did get it but keen to improve and learn so I can get a promotion next time- even if you have to fake it through gritted teeth. Then if you still feel like telling them to stuff it do it afterwards. You won't get any useful or constructive information if you are subconsciouly leeking hostility through your manner and body language so it may take a super human effort.

I'd explore with your manager/senior manager getting your current post regraded. Involve your union too.

Work to your job description, that's what you're paid for but also query the interview results.I work in the public sector and two colleagues have walked out recently having been in post for over 25 yrs each. It's been a long and painful process for both of them but basically they worked way beyond their job descriptions expecting a reward at a later stage.It never arrived and they were eaten up by it.

' Cutting your nose off to spite your face' is a colourful way of saying 'being unreasonable' so yes, you would be unreasonable to give up on your project out of pique. I am sorry you were disappointed, but most people get knocked back a few times before being promoted, and the work you have done on your project would not necessarily be relevant to the position you applied for. At present you have what many ambitious people want-an opportunity to demonstrate skills above your grade-if you waste it, you might not get another.

Ask your manager why you didn't get it. It might help clear the air (if it was for a valid reason).

If you are passionate about the project keep at it, but keep a balance, and don't let it burn you out. I would not hand it over to the guy who got the promotion, it will be labelled as his success after you've presumably already done much of the work, that won't help you.

If you do end up doing the project I’d think really carefully about how to use it to your advantage, you need to be really visible. Meet with people as high up as you can, give a presentation about it, send reports to people who might be interested and make sure it has your name all over it. Don’t think that you can just do a good job and you’ll get rewarded, you’ve got to play the game. If you google Susan Ritchie she has some really good tips on her website (I’m not connected but have found her newsletters really useful).

Ask for feedback from your interview. Probably basic sexism, see gender gap? Experience will look good on your cv and can use in future interview,
Can you ask for regrading based on responsibility or jd change? Who will run the project?

Don't tell them where to stick it as this won't help you and your career - don't waste the potential benefit to you of your investment so far. Put aside your feelings, seek feedback as others have suggested, and finish the project so you can land a better job/better pay where you are or elsewhere. No reason not to ask your manager about current pay levels based on all your input so far. Even if the answer is no at the moment, you might be told when you can expect your grade to change.

Don't cut your nose off to spite your face - as the saying suggests, it's never a good look, and to mix metaphors, you'll look like it's sour grapes!

Carry on with the project you believe in, because you are still the best person to leads it. Ask for feedback as suggested - if it really was a question of not ticking enough boxes in the application and interview process, ask to be sent on some training. It's not always obvious how to do that.

In your position, I'd suspect some ulterior motive, like not wanting you to be distracted from your project, but employers have to be able to prove that their appointments procedure was absolutely above board and based on finding the best fit for the person spec and job description/, and you have every right to raise your concerns if you think you've been passed over unfairly.

One of my friends was passed over or a band 7 promotion when she was a band 6 - she carried on her path and was well liked and admired for her tenacity get her projects completed - she got a promotion to a band 9 - frog jumping her manager completely by applying to a different trust. He was horrified but had kept her back and told her she wasn't ready for the band 7 (2 months before she was appointed to the band 9) she has gone from strength to strength.

If it is point based then it's not personal. I have been an internal candidate in an interview (education) where I knew more buzzwords than the other internal candidate but they gave her the position anyway as she was already doing the job (but asked me to reapply when the next one came up). I was not upset at the time because I knew I had stormed it by learning all the buzzwords a person at that paygrade had already written down for me. So I didn't 'deserve' it but got promoted later anyway: you either interview well or you don't. Sometimes a panel may try and rig it, sometimes their hands are tied. You know who was on the interview panel and how strict they would have had to be.
As a student I was paid 15 quid to be the guinea pig interviewee for NHS trust interviewers - they definitely had a bank of answers they wanted to hear and cross reference even back then (this was the 90s) I would imagine their recruitment policy box ticking is even stricter now.
Was your direct manager on the panel or did they just submit a reference? Did they commiserate with you? What did the third candidate think? Did you receive any feedback yet?
I would continue with the project and see it through but not take on anything else above my pay grade in future until I was promoted next time round.

The way the interview is done is in two parts. The first part was 12 questions, each question being worth 5 points depending on how well you answer it, and the second part is a presentation worth 40 points and there are set criteria of the presentation that gain you points.

So each applicant is graded out of 100 and the highest scorer gets the job.

No part of the interview is about how long you’ve been qualified for, or experiences you've had in your career, or what you think you can bring to the role, or how you envisage your career developing and how you can enhance the care the ward provides etc etc

It’s purely just questions about general concepts of nursing and the person gets points depending on the detail of the answer they give.

I completely accept he obviously scored more than me but professionally I am far more experienced than him, I have done so much more in my career compared to him and it all stands for nothing because he said more buzz words about waiting times than I did (as an example).

Within me implementing these new changes I, and four other nurses have undergone extra training, and it was the information we gained in this training that I will then be passing on when I provide teaching to the other nurses and medical teams. Within this group of five of us is the guy who got the promotion.

At the point of us having the extra training we were all in the same Band but I was the most experienced of us within the group.
It just feels so off that even though the man who got promoted is part of our specialist team I’m still the one expected to do all the work.

If I had have got the promotion it wouldn’t have made any difference to my Manager or the role I’m playing in implementing this new change as I would still be working on the same ward I work on now.

I know they weren’t blocking the promotion or anything, it was purely just about the points.

I just feel angry because it seems like such a flawed process when someone who has been qualified for little over two years has been promoted above me despite my
experience and the amount of work I have been putting in to improve the care we give on the ward.

I just feel fed up with the unfairness of it all.

Or based on what red said above, apply to a different trust? is that even an option for you?

If you are passionate about it then carry on doing it. I would however, make sure it’s reflected and documented in any reviews you have (I don’t know how it works in the and that it’s seen as you going ‘above and beyond’

Was your direct manager on the panel or did they just submit a reference? Did they commiserate with you?

Yes, my direct Manager was one of the people on the interview panel.

She took me into her office to break the news that I hadn’t got the position and she could see how upset I was and she seemed sad on my behalf too.