To cut my nose off to spite my face just to make a point? Work related.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I’m feeling so torn about something that’s happening at work....

I’m a nurse and for the last 6 months I’ve been starting to implement a massive change to one of the services that we provide and it has got the potential to be something really amazing. It involves new policies being written, new care plans being created and it means giving some teaching to other members of staff and doctors - in other departments as well as my own. I’m doing it alongside my Manager but it’s my “baby” as such and implementing it and all the changes that go along with it is definitely above my pay grade. However, it’s something I’m really passionate about and so I have thrown myself into it.

A month or so ago there came an opportunity for a promotion so myself and two other nurses went for it. I was by far the most experienced and maybe I naively thought that all the work I’d been doing on the new project would earn me a step up the pay scale.

However, they gave the position to another nurse and although I really get on with him, he’s been qualified 10 years less than me, and is not particularly thought highly of by other staff in a professional capacity. As a person he’s a really nice guy, I socialise with him out of work sometimes with other colleagues and I generally have nothing against him.

I was understandably very hurt though when he got the job over me and although I know NHS interviews are points based and so he obviously said more buzz words in the interview than I did but it still feels so unfair.

My issue is that my Manager has been in touch to ask how far along I’ve gotten with implementing the new changes to the service that I’ve been working on and asking when we can meet up to discuss what my next steps are to getting the changes put into practice.

I honestly feel like telling her I’m done with it and that if I’m not deemed to be “senior staff material” then why should I be doing all this work for her benefit?

It sounds really petty I know. It just feels like I’m being taken advantage of and if there’s no reward or recognition for any of this work I’ve been doing then what’s the point?

I feel like telling her to have her newly appointed senior staff member do it because I don’t see why I should put myself out anymore (I know how childish I sound).

It’s so hard because it’s a project I’m passionate about but at the same time I just feel so angry.

My DH absolutely thinks I should tell them to shove it.

But am I cutting off my nose to spite my face by no longer doing something I’m passionate about just to make a point?

I don’t know. I feel confused and torn.

I feel for you, OP. This happens a lot in the NHS. You have to speak the speak and walk the walk.

Apply for another Band 6 position in your Trust or another Trust.

There has been good advice from posters such as @bluegreygreen - but unfortunately that doesn't fit with OP's narrative, where she is a victim, being discriminated against & exploited.

As others have said, if this comes across during day-to-day work or interview, then it's clear why OP wasn't appointed.

As an nhs manager people like @bluegrey and @prosecco have it on the nose. There’s been another recent post about an admin (med sec?) feeling unfairly done by re flexible working.

Some of the advice here is well meant I’m sure but tread carefully. ‘Getting stroppy’ and ‘ensuring you take credit’ is culturally not the way to go. Obviously I don’t know the people involved but tbh from what I’ve read I think it sounds like you lack the maturity required to hold a more senior position - alas I have had unfortunate experience of people feeling they are ‘owed’ a promotion without really understanding how they’re seen by others or actually, what else is going on outside their immediate sphere of influence. Good luck with your project.

I agree wholeheartedly with @bluegrey, and I speak as a Band 7 RN who recruits a lot. There is a move towards Values-based recruitment and it’s about a lot more than ‘buzz words’.

I’m afraid the attitudes you have expressed in your thread could lead to an assumption that a Band 6 position is not for you right now, though hopefully you are just licking your wounds after an upset.

It’s really not all about experience and time-served, I’ve been turned down for a promotion in favour of someone in their 20s who’d previously been a student nurse on my ward, now that was painful but I certainly didn’t take my bat home.

I hope you’ve had time to reflect on this experience and hope you might end up seeing it as a narrow escape, I know I did in the end.

Use it as a stepping stone to a better job.Maybe they needed you to finish the job. They wanted the Male to run something else. Maybe they thought u could do a better job fro where you are

I think this is unfair on u but remember how you react will define you as a professional- so try not to react but instead be proactive.

Try not to do anything that makes it sound like you resent that he got the promotion and not you. Keep it dignified and don’t compare (even though you are totally reasonable).

I think what you should do is focus on your own achievements. Go to manager or HR, let them know that you feel you have put in efforts beyond your pay grade, and that you want recognition and a pay rise. Ask them what they have in mind for you. Let them know that you assumed you would get promoted this time round and frankly feel let down (do not at all refer to the other guy though).. tell them you want a plan so you know what you are working towards and with a deadline - or otherwise you need to limit the amount of effort you put in.

If you are feeling confident that your efforts cannot he replaced, them use that as a consequence.. if not, I would hold on to making a point that no one else can take YOUR project, until your efforts have been recognized.

Definately continue with the project. And once you accomplished it if no promotion, get a good reference and go find someone else to work while demanding a pay rise
and an increased grading.

Go to manager or HR, let them know that you feel you have put in efforts beyond your pay grade, and that you want recognition and a pay rise

The difficulty is that comments like this do not reflect the reality of working for the NHS.

Yes, a conversation with the manager may be useful for OP, at least in clearing the air and ensuring she knows where OP is coming from. However, pay is by grade/'band', and moving to the next band will require success at interview.

There is also a culture of shared ownership & team-working in the NHS. "There is no "I" in team".

So while OP has clearly had a great project for improving care, it would be unusual for a Band 5 to co-ordinate & lead a multi-disciplinary project across several clinical teams.

This is why her manager is involved & attending meetings. OP could certainly ask to attend meetings or to receive minutes though.

It can't be compared to competitive or creative-type industries where "stealing ideas" etc is an issue.

And finally, OP has been a band 5 for a long time (many years). This is unusual - this is a graduate-type role which people usually stay in for a few years at most. So there would be questions as to why someone has not progressed for so long.

It is absolutely not unusual to be a band 5 nurse for many years! I’m aware of hundreds of nurses in my Trust alone who have been band 5 for ages.

And finally, OP has been a band 5 for a long time (many years). This is unusual - this is a graduate-type role which people usually stay in for a few years at most.

Ok then.....

Anyhow - I had my meeting with my manager and it went as expected. She said she understood why I was disappointed that I didn’t get the job but it’s no reflection on me as a nurse, I simply just didn’t get the top marks on the day.

Regarding the project, I explained that I was feeling a bit pushed out of it considering how it all stemmed from my ideas yet she’s the one who is seeming to be attributed to the creation of alll these changes.

She said that she was hugely grateful for all the work I had done on the project but ultimately it has to be led by a manager and there’s not much she can do about that.

I did ask about upcoming meetings, of which there are two, but they are arranged on days that I don’t work so can’t attend.

I’m really not bothered about the Band 6 job anymore, I think l was just venting about that when really I was angry/upset at feeling like my project ideas were being stolen from me.

I don’t know where to go from here really as nothing much has changed.

I think it’s time to send out resumes and use your manager as a referee.

"And finally, OP has been a band 5 for a long time (many years). This is unusual - this is a graduate-type role which people usually stay in for a few years at most. So there would be questions as to why someone has not progressed for so long."

Unfortunately, this seems to be the thought process of some NHS managers as I was told this by a few NHS managers. I really don't know why they think like this when one of the reasons may be because of childcare issues. The OP's ward environment may have this culture as evidenced by the junior staff getting more promotions.

OP, it's time to look for a place where your nursing and project management skills will be valued.

Regarding the project, I explained that I was feeling a bit pushed out of it considering how it all stemmed from my ideas yet she’s the one who is seeming to be attributed to the creation of alll these changes.*

Oh I will be very frustrated at that for sure !

Would be *

Regarding the project, I explained that I was feeling a bit pushed out of it considering how it all stemmed from my ideas yet she’s the one who is seeming to be attributed to the creation of alll these changes.

*She said that she was hugely grateful for all the work I had done on the project but ultimately it has to be led by a manager and there’s not much she can do about that.

Just because she is leading it, doesn't mean she has to take the credit. Neither does it mean she has to exclude you. You should be in on the meetings and discussions about it, and certainly be given the credit where it's due.

I'd look for a new position, one where you'll actually get recognised for your contributions.

If lots of NHS managers really think nurses usually only stay in band 5 roles for a few years before progressing then that displays a complete lack of understanding of nursing. In particular of hospital ward nursing. Other professions are better (not perfect by any means) at moving people past band 5. Nursing has a massive bottleneck of staff stuck at band 5 (potentially still with a huge amount of responsibility and being in charge of wards regularly).

Well I decided to take the bull by the horns today after all these posts giving me a kick up the backside.

I emailed the Consultant whose speciality is the same as what I’m interested in and I told him about the work that’s being done on the ward and the changes I’m implementing etc and asked if he thought there was room in his team for a Specialist Nurse (me) to oversee the programme and then outlined to him exactly what I could bring to the programme and the vision I had for it should I be given the opportunity to take sole charge of it.

I’m a bit nervous about the fact I have done it but at the time it felt like the right thing to do.

I’m quickly realising that if I want something then I’m going to have to go out there and get it instead of passively waiting for opportunities to find me!

QueenofmyPrinces

Well done and good luck!

That's a great update OP. No harm in pitting yourself out there. Well done!

Great update! Only a month til the project is implemented then time to move on I think. Keep at it, you will be glad!

Great initiative!

Don't let your confidence take too much of a hit if he's not able to help - that's exactly the sort of pro-activity that will get you noticed. Brilliant :)

I’m quickly realising that if I want something then I’m going to have to go out there and get it instead of passively waiting for opportunities to find me!

This is so, so true. I only realised it a few years ago. Wish I'd realised it much earlier.

If you write this up properly could you convince the trust to fund a masters for you?
I know several staff who have done this.
Be great for CPD.

Omg I’m so excited for u. Plz keep us updated