To cut my nose off to spite my face just to make a point? Work related.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I’m feeling so torn about something that’s happening at work....

I’m a nurse and for the last 6 months I’ve been starting to implement a massive change to one of the services that we provide and it has got the potential to be something really amazing. It involves new policies being written, new care plans being created and it means giving some teaching to other members of staff and doctors - in other departments as well as my own. I’m doing it alongside my Manager but it’s my “baby” as such and implementing it and all the changes that go along with it is definitely above my pay grade. However, it’s something I’m really passionate about and so I have thrown myself into it.

A month or so ago there came an opportunity for a promotion so myself and two other nurses went for it. I was by far the most experienced and maybe I naively thought that all the work I’d been doing on the new project would earn me a step up the pay scale.

However, they gave the position to another nurse and although I really get on with him, he’s been qualified 10 years less than me, and is not particularly thought highly of by other staff in a professional capacity. As a person he’s a really nice guy, I socialise with him out of work sometimes with other colleagues and I generally have nothing against him.

I was understandably very hurt though when he got the job over me and although I know NHS interviews are points based and so he obviously said more buzz words in the interview than I did but it still feels so unfair.

My issue is that my Manager has been in touch to ask how far along I’ve gotten with implementing the new changes to the service that I’ve been working on and asking when we can meet up to discuss what my next steps are to getting the changes put into practice.

I honestly feel like telling her I’m done with it and that if I’m not deemed to be “senior staff material” then why should I be doing all this work for her benefit?

It sounds really petty I know. It just feels like I’m being taken advantage of and if there’s no reward or recognition for any of this work I’ve been doing then what’s the point?

I feel like telling her to have her newly appointed senior staff member do it because I don’t see why I should put myself out anymore (I know how childish I sound).

It’s so hard because it’s a project I’m passionate about but at the same time I just feel so angry.

My DH absolutely thinks I should tell them to shove it.

But am I cutting off my nose to spite my face by no longer doing something I’m passionate about just to make a point?

I don’t know. I feel confused and torn.

I can see why you don’t feel appreciated or valued. I agree that it may be time for you to set your sights elsewhere, at a different trust perhaps.

Gone are the days where you stay loyal to one employer for 30 years, it’s fine to move around if you have outgrown your current role and there is limited scope for promotion

At the end of the day, none of us know that the person who is employed because they got the most points, did in fact get the most points

Look OP, I get that you are bitterly disappointed and feeling that the work you have put in should have "earned" you the promotion. And I can see that you don't rate, or perhaps even actively hold in contempt, the colleague who got the job (and you may or may not be correct on that front, we have no way of knowing) so it stings even more that you are passed over in favour of him for a job you wanted/felt was rightly yours.

However, what you've posted above about the interview process being rigged could equally apply to you if you had got the job. You're colleagues could have been saying the same about you, but I would guess you wouldn't be angry at the process being unfair etc had you been appointed- you'd have said you earned that job fair and square, that the right person had been appointed. You do need to be careful that your views on the process aren't being coloured by your feeling that you should have got the job by rights (and I have to say there is a suggestion in everything you have written that you do believe you were the only person who earned it/had the experience/were right for the job- again, you may well be 100% right but you might want to consider the possibility that there was an argument against you getting the job).

Your experience and skills will have got you onto the shortlist, as you were (on paper) suitable for the job. The interview isn't just to look at your experience (they already know about that)- they are looking for other things. The interview process isn't perfect- I don't think there is a perfect process, TBH- and I would think it could be manipulated for a particular end (just like any interview process, if you desire a pre-determined outcome, it's easy to make that happen). However, it is possible that perhaps you didn't interview as well you thought. Or perhaps the interviewers thought that you had an area of weakness which didn't suit this particular role. There is only one way to find out- ask for interview feedback.

As to the project, I think you should continue. Giving it up now will not get you the job you wanted but will mean you can't work on something you are passionate about. You may not get another opportunity to do this sort of project in an area you really care about, or at least, not any time soon. It may not have got you this promotion but could stand you in very good stead in the future.

In addition, I imagine you will also be extremely irritated if someone else takes over the project and doesn't do it the way you would have, but you will be powerless to change it, having walked away. Imagine how furious you will be if it isn't a success- I would think you'll be equally annoyed if someone else delivers a successful project on the back of your hard work. If you walk away you'll get very little of the credit, I would have thought.

Is the 10 minute feeling of satisfaction of "showing them" worth it? From where I am standing the only person who really suffers from throwing away this opportunity in a fit of pique is you. Well, the patients might if the project is cancelled or whoever the replace you with doesn't do as good a job/does a terrible job- but that's an unknown.

Furthermore, you need to consider the professional implications of dropping this project. Will there be any? I would have thought there is a possibility of this painting you in a very negative light- eg. seniors and peers thinking "Queen didn't get the job so she quit the project in a fit of temper/retaliation". In my line of work that is exactly how it would be viewed: you threw your toys out of the pram when you didn't get the promotion you wanted- and most would take quite a dim view of it because its not seen as professional behaviour. Nor does it show strategic, logical thinking. It displays lack of commitment to something you say you are passionate about. And when the going gets tough/you don't get your own way/things don't go smoothy/you don't agree with a decision etc- will you behave in a similar manner. It might not be fair or reflect what you would do, but it raises the possibility in others minds.

I think you should complete the project to the best of your ability. Hopefully it will be a resounding success and you can use it, along with your other skills and experience, to move on in your career.

You would not be unreasonable to seek interview feedback- what went well, where could you improve and so on- to help with your next interview and clarify matters for you. If you really feel you cannot continue to work for this organisation, it would also be a good idea to look for a job elsewhere. Sometimes a fresh challenge is a good thing and sometimes people who don't know you well will see things with fresh eyes.

I’ve not long spoken to my Manager as she rang to check I was on track with the implementation of the change as two of the Matrons have been on her back about when it will be finalised.

I told her that if she wants me to do all the work she is asking of me then she needs to give me time to do it as it’s not fair to expect me to do it all on my own time. I have two young children at home so I resent having to spend my evenings working on this project. I am very passionate about doing it but if Management want me to do all the work then they have to set aside time for me to do it: i.e one of my clinical shifts a week is changed to an Admin day to enable me to really crack on with it.

She said she understands my point and when she’s in on Monday we can have a talk about it as I’m on shift that day.

Realistically, I can’t manage the extra workload on top of my clinical hours. I think even if Management could see this and gave me actual time to do it I would feel more appreciated.

However, as it stands I now have work I will need to do on the project over the weekend ready for my meeting with her on Monday (on top of having two early shifts this weekend too).

Maybe I just need to stand up for myself more. I feel that by putting all this work on my shoulders that is far above my pay grade, and expecting me to meet targets and deadlines without actually allowing me time to work on it, is just taking advantage of me a little bit because they know how passionate I am about the topic and so just expect me to get on with it in my own time.

One of the things I learned after nearly 40 years in the nhs and in education is that extra time, effort and comittment rarely gets you any further than the people who do the bare minimum.
Those of us who care will always go the extra mile.
As I said earlier, make sure you retain ownership of your work and use it to further your career elsewhere.
With the current shortage of doctors the roles of Clinical Nurse Specialist, Nurse Practitioner, Community Specialist Nurse are all expanding. Most are band 6 or 7.
As your dc get older, life does get easier. Outside hospital, hours are more flexible.

The way you've characterised the project in your most recent post "if she wants me to do all the work she is asking of me... if Management want me to do all the work" is very different from how you were talking about it initially: "I’ve been starting to implement a massive change to one of the services that we provide... I’m doing it alongside my Manager but it’s my “baby” as such"

Is this your project that you are driving because you're passionate about it and your manager is facilitating that, or is it something that is being put on your plate against your will?

Further to my previous post that they may feel you're more valuable where you are & quietly beavering away is rarely recognised (you need to blow your own trumpet & and get Manager attention in large organisations). I forgot to say, 90% of interview decisions are swayed by personality fit (I'm a contractor, I can do interviews in my sleep now & tailor my spiel to my audience). Don't feel rage re the other guy. He might indeed be a bit meh, but maybe he's a good 'fit' personality & temperament wise. We aren't all innovative etc. A lot of people do the minimum & still get on because they are socially fluent.

It was initially born of me raising issues with management about the way these patients are cared for...

I then started involving a specialist nursing team who work within their trust to discuss how things can be improved.

I continued to voice concerns with my manager about the way things are currently done across numerous departments and I told her some of my ideas regarding how things could be improved.

It then blew up from that into her wanting to implement all these changes into widespread practice and the project has got her name on it with me doing all the work. I never thought that me making suggestions about improvements would lead to a huge overhaul of the service and all these new changes being implemented.

She says that implementing this programme is going to be her mark on the ward, but I’m the one doing the actual work for the changes to take place.

She is now the one having meetings with the specialist nurses instead of me, telling them my ideas and concerns and then feeding back to me what the next steps need to be and then chasing me to ask if I’ve done it yet.

She has contributed one idea as to how things can be improved further - and it’s a really good idea - but yet again it’s me she’s got doing the work.

If I’m honest it’s starting to feel like she’s looking for the glory of being behind something innovative when all the work has been done by me.

Like I said, I’m extremely passionate about this area of nursing, every member of staff knows that the care of these patients is my strong point and what I enjoy doing and so they can see why my Manager is putting most of the workload on my shoulders.

I’m excited about the changes because it is going to make such a big difference to some of our patients, but it would just be nice to feel appreciated for my role in it in terms of it being my hard work and my ideas that are driving the project forward as opposed to me being the organ grinder.

To be honest she sounds like a really good manager.

It rather looks as though she is going to take the credit.

She is driving this project and you because it is going to make her look very effective in her role.
HER Legacy.
Of course she wants you continuing what you are doing.
I would want a specific meeting where she explains exactly why you didn't get the job.
I would tell her to deal with the promoted colleague
I would focus efforts on moving job.
In the meantime protect your work so far.
Your boss hasn't your best interests in mind.
Directly after you get the bad news she's on to you about driving the project forward.
Ha! Trust your gut.
She's using you to help her career trajectory.

She is now the one having meetings with the specialist nurses instead of me, telling them my ideas and concerns and then feeding back to me what the next steps need to be and then chasing me to ask if I’ve done it yet.
So she's using you as her gopher. You do all the extra work mostly in your own time on top of your existing work and she's seen as the masthead even though you are actually the one who initiated the project and have most of the ideas and drive. No wonder you didn't get the promotion OP.

OP You sound awesome. I hope the hurt subsides soon and the process hardens you up and you leapfrog this nerd soon ;) Good luck with your project and thank you for your support and care to patients

My husband thinks I’m being a bit of a door mat but I so badly want the project to be a success because the patients deserve the best treatment.

I’m torn between seeing it through because I want it to take off but also thinking that if it’s not even going to be recognised as something I have done then why should I bother if someone else is getting the glory for it?

I would be looking for a new job asap.
Polish up your CV, keep all your work so far, don't share any electronic versions.
Printed only, 1 copy with DRAFT in enormous letters across every page.
I had a feeling this would be the situation.
The person who nicked my work wasn't even my manager - she was sent a copy by the person I shared it with to check my budget figures.

Do you still have a relationship with the specialist nurses?
Could you maybe have an informal chat along the lines of just touching base to apologise for taking time over it, given that you are doing all the work in your own time, but of course you do want to do a good job etc.

Yes I’m still in touch with the specialist nurses. One of them used to be a nurse on the ward before specialising and one of my children is the same age as one of hers so sometimes we see each other out of work.

There is no pressure from the specialist nurses about the time scales, that’s all coming from the matrons.

I was just a bit peeved because it was fine for me to have the meetings with the specialist team when I was first looking at improvements to the service, but since things have escalated and my manager has taken the leading role it feels like she’s pushing me out as she’s now the one arranging and having meetings with them without even letting me know - the first I know about the meetings is when she emails me to let me know about the next job she needs me to do.

Well, then I would say how you characterised the situation in your OP isn't accurate- your manager has taken on board your comments, recognised the validity of your points and decided to take things further.

She has been using your ideas and drive, but has now taken over-all management of the project with you doing the majority of the detail/graft. So it is your idea, she has overall oversight of the project.

However, in management terms this will be seen as "her project" as she is managing it. It's a bit like when you have a lead researcher on a scientific project/study- they certainly don't do all the day to day work themselves (they usually have a mixture of post-grads/PhD students and some post doctoral researchers, numbers depending on the study/project) but they are the lead/have oversight of the project and they do take a LOT of the "glory" or recognition (and the flack if it fails/flops). If you aren't happy with that, and want greater recognition, you need to discuss that with her.

But I would agree that if she wants you to take on a lot of additional work, then she should be supporting you in that by giving you specific allocated time to work on it.

Yes, OP, step back and look for a new role. Your manager runs your project , not you - that was not clear in your initial posts.

A good manager will always give appropriate credit to the person doing the work and will ensure that other parties are aware.
Only the OP knows if this is happening, or if the manager is passing off the project as her own ideas/effort.
There is a big difference.
It is soul destroying when you come up with all the original ideas, put in all the work and someone else takes all the credit without acknowledging your contribution.
I have seen it so many times.

A good manager will always give appropriate credit to the person doing the work and will ensure that other parties are aware.

It’s the way I’m not totally excluded from all the meetings regarding its implementation (there are three other teams we are working with on this) makes me feel like I’m being sidelined.

I’m either part of the project or I’m not - and if I’m not she should stop asking me to do all the work. When she takes all this work to the meetings I have no idea if she’s telling them it’s my work or not.

That’s meant to say “It’s the way I’m now totally excluded from the meetings....l”

Ah ok OP

I agree with the others you could have really sold that in the interview.
I havent seen anyone recruit using presentations for years.
My advice would be as previously -ditch the "unfair" attitude.
It will hold you back .
Complete your project ,implement and audit its success, any changes in practice etc.
Be gracious to the successful candidate rather than gossip.
Good luck !

she is totally stealing your work and using you.

I would just stop doing the work unless she agrees to you going to meetings and being able to get it recognized as yours. She's taking your work and won't bother about implementing it properly - it's a glory project for her.

And probably WHY she doesn't want you promoted, as it would be harder to abuse you like this if you were higher up.

Honestly, OP, own this work or no one higher up will know what you have done.

Say you need to attend the meetings, pdf all documents you create and have a footer stating you created it and version number. Make some notes on all the work you did and do going forward. You need to find some way of speaking to someone else about your level of involvement to see if they are aware you are actually doing the work.