.. to be disappointed that a racist received a standing ovation!

[NannaNoodleman]

Danny Baker: Standing ovation at first show since Twitter storm www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48249637

What is wrong with people. He showed his true inherent racism but people still believe he's a top bloke!

No. It's the old bread and circuses meme. The Romans. Royalty as performing animals in a circus. The country might be going down the tubes but, hey, nothing like a royal wedding or a new baby to take our minds off it. Aided and abetted by the media turning the whole thing into a soap opera with manufactured feuds and rivalries to keep the show on the road.

That interpretation is a million times more likely than DB unmasking himself as a founder member of the Bermondsey chapter of the KKK.

There's another royal wedding this weekend. The Mail is already scrutinising the guest list. DB will be watching the Cup Final.

Lifecraft I would certainly be upset that I had offended my friend. If I didn't realise choc ices can be a racial slur, I would listen, reflect and change my behaviour. I have to take responsibility for my own racism.

If I said to my friend 'I didn't realise choc ices is a racial slur. I didn't intend to cause you any offence. I thought the choc ices were a nice thing for us to eat", I have now invalidated my friends racial experiance and hurt. What I am saying is that my intent is more important than her.

I have a scenario for you. You go out with your male friend and he is nice, has always been respectful etc. He tells he has a joke he heard today: "what do you say to a woman with 2 black eyes. Nothing, you already told her twice".
He has no idea (like some men have no idea) that jokes about domestic violence is sexist.

He says he didn't intend to offend anyone with this joke, it was banter with the lads. He has never hit a woman, he didn't mean that women should be subjected to domestic violence. He says you've misunderstood the joke. It was just boys being boys, saying stupid jokes. Of course he doesn't think it's OK to hit women, but he thought it was funny, he didn't mean to upset women who have suffered domestic violence. Anyone who takes this joke in any other way that what he intended, are just being too sensitive and it's PC gone mad.

He had no idea what he did was wrong, but according to you he is not sexist. You say, intent does matter, so nobody can call him a sexist pig.

You can't believe that! It's complete nonsense.

Thymeout thank you for the info. I don't watch sky news, so I didn't know the name of the programme. I shall, l watch it now.

Can't believe this thread about racist Danny Baker is still going.

When it comes to condemning men as sexist, many of these women get very evangelical with their condemnation. When it comes to racism, the same logic they use to denounce sexism seems not to apply. That's why I have never join women's networks and western feminism. Its all about white women. The experiences of others do not matter.

He says you've misunderstood the joke

But I haven't misunderstood the joke. The joke is the woman has been punched in the face twice already. That is the joke. I've understood it correctly, and it's not a nice joke. The man who has told me the joke understands the joke also. There's no misunderstanding at all.

I would certainly be upset that I had offended my friend. If I didn't realise choc ices can be a racial slur, I would listen, reflect and change my behaviour. I have to take responsibility for my own racism.

That's all fine, explain you meant no harm, and didn't know about the racial slur. By all means apologise for upsetting her and change your future

But do not apologise for your own racism. Because you weren't being racist. If you are not a racist, you are not a racist, and shouldn't be apologising for being a racist.

Isn't it black people who use a choc-ice or an Oreo biscuit to label one of their own for being an Uncle Tom? How is that racist? (Tho' I've never heard of choc ices being used in this way and I thought Oreo was an Americanism connected to Black Power. Was Obama an Oreo?)

And, at what point does the minority group have a responsibility to not take offence where none is intended? Given the ubiquity of Oreos and choc-ices, it would be a pity if it became 'a thing' so that they couldn't be served in multi-racial company.

I'm not saying the tweet wasn't racist - whether you believe it was inadvertent or not. But an inherent racist would never kiss a black woman. Wouldn't even hug one

You can’t be serious. You do realise most black female slaves were raped by the men who owned them?

I do think that people are talking at cross purposes in a way. I’ve thought about this a lot, and I’ve read all the opinions on this. It’s clear that Danny Baker caused racist offense, by the way the tweet was perceived. And by that, I think people are justified to be upset, and DB was right to be punished. And because he caused racist offense, some are calling DB a racist. Thanks seems that there’s little evidence to suggest DB intended to cause offense and therefore it seems unfathomable to label him a racist

That interpretation is a million times more likely than DB unmasking himself as a founder member of the Bermondsey chapter of the KKK

Your hyperbole is ridiculous. It isn't a case of "bread and circuses". I have no interest in the Royal family but I stand by my earlier view that you really would have to be living under a rock not to be aware of her racial background. I have less than zero interest in football yet I am aware of the monkey taunts.

It isn't a question of DB being a member of the KKK, but DB being an ignorant, insensitive arse. What sort of moron thinks the birth of a baby is the opportune moment to come out with garbage like this.

seems that there’s little evidence to suggest DB intended to cause offense

His pathetic excuse was that it was meant to be an attack on privilege. Of course he meant to be offensive.

Having been called a monkey, the n word, half-caste, and coloured etc. in reference to my mixed raced heritage (black father, white mother), the level of deliberate ignorance here is staggering.

Obviously white people can't be expected to be fully aware of the implications of being born without such 'privelege' but bloody hell!! Arguments like this are the reason ethnic minorities disengage from talking to white people about race in the first place.

In recent history, in Britain, white people have never been in the minority so the pearl clutching about DB and his virtuous, innocent mistake is a moot point. You can't be considered an authority on something which has never been part of your narrative.

I am Scottish and passionately anti-monarchist so this definitely doesn't come from a place of outrage at the disrespect towards our 'dear' royal family. It's just being a decent human being..

Also, considering the state that society is in (DUP partnership, Farage, Johnson and co. terrifying the life from us all with leadership bids, the dancing queen TM in full delusion mode), I'd absolutely believe that the tweet was published with the thought that people would ignore the BLATANT racism and excuse it as comedy. Judging by the comments here, he wasn't entirely wrong.

And lastly, the thought that the shade of brown you are somehow quantifies the extent to which you aren't white is, potentially, the most toxic thing I've read here so far. Read a bit less of the Daily Mail!!

I think over-reaction is a bad thing, too, as exemplified on this thread when pps with no discernible racist agenda got flamed for using the 'wrong' terminology

Since I’ve heard that ‘wrong’ terminology used by many [insert correct terminology] people to describe themselves (and not in a reclaiming flat-out obviously offensive words way), the ‘flaming’ (plus a few other posts) makes me think the poster isn’t posting in good faith, tbh.

'There's another royal wedding this weekend. The Mail is already scrutinising the guest list. DB will be watching the Cup Final.'

Thank God we have a personal friend of his to let us know what he'll be up to.

He didn't post any monkey photos when williams kids were born did he?

Itscalled Oh don't be ridiculous. You don't have to know DB personally to be able to state, with some confidence, that someone who writes and broadcasts about football will be watching the Cup Final! You sound like one of those posters who think they're being clever when they say, 'How do you know? Were you there?'

whatwould Have you RTFT? You're going over v old ground. When it comes to making a judgement about whether DB intended his tweet to be racially offensive or whether he was making a point about something else, those who have listened to DB for years without discerning any hint of racism and know that he has many times condemned those with 'diseased minds' can absolutely be considered an authority on whether HE is a racist or not. That's the subject of this thread. Those who know of him only from the odd panel show or had never heard of him before this tweet - not so much.

Lifecraft You said the intent was important.
He is telling you his intent was not to be sexist or offend domestic violence victims.
As we have to take his intent into account (as per your stance), then surely he can't be sexist or misogynistic?

There are men who will tell you the joke is not about punching a women in the face, and you have completely misunderstood, that's not what they meant.
I would suggest googling the mental gymnastics of how some men explain alternative meanings to rape and DV jokes, but I wouldn't recommend it - it's a scary place

To me, I don't care what a man's excuses, explanation, misunderstandings, he uses when he makes a joke about punching a women in the face. It doesn't matter if it didnt enter his head that the women in the joke is suffering domestic violence. The joke will be interpreted as a nasty, sexist joke and he is a sexist, misogynistic arsehole.

In exactly the same way, to me, I don't care what Danny Bakers excuses, explanation, misunderstandings, he uses when he makes a joke about chimpanzees and baby. It doesn't matter if it didn't enter his head that the baby in the joke is mixed race. The joke will be interpreted as a nasty, racist joke and he is a racist.

I know it's hard to be accused of being a racist, sexist, homophobe, islamaphobe, etc, but when we start making excuses as "well, I didn't mean it that way", "oh no, I really meant this", then these issues will continue. As difficut as it is to do, we have to look at our own biases, racial predjucides, superiority over others.

It doesn't matter if it didn't enter his head that the baby in the joke is mixed race. The joke will be interpreted as a nasty, racist joke and he is a racist.

He may be a racist, or may not. Just because people think something is racist, doesn't mean it was meant that way. And if you are not a racist, you're not a racist. As per my choc ice example.

Always remember, just because someone is offended doesn't mean they are right. In my example, your friend who storms off because she thinks you've insulted her with a racial slur is wrong. You didn't do that. She wrongly thought you did.

Just because people think something is racist, doesn't mean it was meant that way
Just because someone is offended doesn't mean they are right

Wow. OK, I agree with you.

I was wrong to call the man who cat-called/wolf whistled at me a sexist pig.
He meant it as a compliment. His intent was to tell me he finds me sexual attractive. God, aren't I an idiot?
Just because I think cat-calling/wolf whistling is sexual harassment, demeaning to women and is sexist, doesn't mean he meant it that way. I mean, come on, I took it the wrong way.

When I was upset because I thought he sexually harassed me, I was wrong. He didn't mean it that way, so he isn't sexist. I wrongly thought he did.

In no way should he apologise to me for being a sexist arsehole, because, well you know, just because I was offended, doesn't mean I was right.

Oh, and if he does apologise and says "I'm sorry you thought I was sexual harassing you, I didn't mean it that way. I am not sexist cos I love women. Most of my friends are women". - I will accept this because this is a perfectly acceptable apology and I will no longer think he is a sexist fucknugget.

Cool.

But what if he wasn't wolf whistling at you at all. What if he hadn't even seen you, and was wolf whistling at his wife, who was walking behind you. Because it's a long standing joke between them?

What's the story now?

Yes, definitely, it happens all the time.

"Don't be silly, I wasn't wolf whistling at you, I was doing it to my wife. How could you possibly think I was doing it to you?.
I can't be sexist, cos my wife thinks it's funny when I wolf whistle at her in public"

Yep, you're right. I feel so much better now.

I must remember this for the next time I hear cat calling in he street.

When a man says "nice tits, love". I must not say this man is a sexist arsehole. No. I must spin around and look for his wife.

Minou123, you’re not understanding the point.

The point is, which for some reason you are determined not to get, is that if your were offended by a man wolf whistling you, but it turns out he wasn't, for what ever reason, he was having a laugh with his wife, of he was whistling a tune and you misheard, or whatever, you've misunderstood. Yes, you were offended, but just because you were offended doesn't make you right.

People get offended over various things, often quite rightly, sometimes maybe they were right to be a bit miffed but they are over reacting, sometimes because they have misunderstood a situation completely, sometimes because they are complete idiots.

If they've misunderstood, or are idiots, you don't have to apologise for being racist/sexist/ageist/homophobic, or anything else, because you aren't. They've got it wrong.

We are all going to be offended at some point, and we are all going to offend someone else at another point. But we live in a country where people are free (within the law) to say what they like. I would rather that and have to be offended sometimes, than the alternative and people be silenced.

Being offended is a price worth paying for a reasonable degree of freedom of speech.