.. to be disappointed that a racist received a standing ovation!

[NannaNoodleman]

Danny Baker: Standing ovation at first show since Twitter storm www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48249637

What is wrong with people. He showed his true inherent racism but people still believe he's a top bloke!

When the police investigated accusations of anti-semtisim, which were leaked by a whistleblower as the Labour Party had done nothing, the clincher regarding arrest seemed to be if there was previous evidence of anti-semitic tweets on-line. So the offending tweet couldn't just be brushed off as a misunderstanding, not knowing it was an anti-semitic trope, or whatever.

No one has so far come up with any evidence of previous racism from DB. Plenty of evidence for the opposite, that he has consistently over many years spoken up against racism. Even in his immediate spontaneous reactions, he referred to racists as having diseased minds.

By contrast, lots of men only vaguely register MM and so genuinely don't know what her background is.

But he works in a news office/BBC building/radio station, where there is news breaking all the time, interviews happening, features being written, etc etc etc. And also, literally everyone discusses the news as part of their job and also just because like-minded people in the same industry chat about things like that.
I worked for the BBC for many many years, and not in a current affairs type of role, yet we all chatted about things like MM and the royal wedding and other current affairs all the time.

Even if DB knew MM was mixed race, and he's admitted he knows about the monkey taunts of black people by scumbag racists, that still doesn't prove that at the time he posted the tweet, he connected those dots.

Everyone can have an opinion, but no one knows for sure.

Everyone can have an opinion, but no one knows for sure

True but surely the reaction of someone who isn’t racist that’s accused of being so wouldn’t have been different to his? A heartfelt apology would have most likely been accepted by the majority of people that had seen his tweet, instead of the one that was issued immediately.

and he's admitted he knows about the monkey taunts of black people by scumbag racists

I thought he went to watch (and took an interest in) football. I don't but even I know about that in relation to football.

I have never like Danny Baker but he seems quite bright so it's hard to believe he didn't know.

True but surely the reaction of someone who isn’t racist that’s accused of being so wouldn’t have been different to his?

If the internet has shown anything is that when people are accused of anything on the internet, people’s first reaction is to be quite defensive. He apologized within 24 hours

people’s first reaction is to be quite defensive.

I can’t imagine why.

If you’re accused of being racist when you’re not why would you be defensive? Being accused of being racist is one of the worst things to be accused of surely? No time for defensiveness just apologising sincerely, which he didn’t imo.

And being defensive about being accused of something as bad as racism is pretty natural

suiker

But he claims that using chimp images after a posh baby arrives is his "go-to" thing. Yet the evidence shows he has never ever posted a chimp photo when any other posh baby was born. So, yes, that could be presented as evidence.

So in your analogy, he hasn't actually robbed 5 other banks, but he was going to except the circumstances at the time made it impossible for him to do so.

DB has a long history of ill-feeling with the BBC. As I said, upthread, he thought they were stuffed shirt, know-nothing Oxbridge types who looked down on him because of his background while not having a hope in hell of being able to do his job for 10 mins, let alone 3 hours.

There's a fantastic rant on Youtube, where he devoted a show to attacking his bosses who had just cut his programme in a shake-up - without having the decency to tell him before he read it in the press. He called them 'pin-headed weasels' live, on-air. Amongst other things.

On this occasion, he was rung up early in the morning to tell him he'd been sacked, without giving him a chance to explain. Just a pompous lecture. He maintains that anyone else would have been called in to discuss it, agree an apology etc. He's probably right. 6 of one, half a dozen....

'So you think I'm a racist?' Expletives deleted. Or, as he said in his Nottingham show, 'When life gives you lemons, throw them back at the people who call you a racist.'

Whether you like him or not, it helps to know a bit of the history before rushing to judge the motivation of someone you know little about.

Btw, didn't the H&M wedding clash with the Cup Final? Or was that Eugenies? I can easily imagine he didn't notice pictures of Doria. He's interested in football, music on vinyl, Disney and Mongolian throat-singers amongst other arcana. His journalism is restricted to music reviews, old interviews with rock stars, and sport. It's never been his job to be abreast of current affairs. I really can't see him sitting round the studio discussing the royals.

DB has a long history of ill-feeling with the BBC. As I said, upthread, he thought they were stuffed shirt, know-nothing Oxbridge types who looked down on him because of his background while not having a hope in hell of being able to do his job for 10 mins, let alone 3 hours.

And yet, they hired him. Lots of privileged men make a living from sneering at an establishment they’re categorically part of (Russel Brand, Nigel Farage...) and I believe that’s true of DB as well. I agree he was treated badly over the axing of his show, but I find his attempts to pretend he’s just a humble joe who didn’t know better and is now being victimised by the big bad BBC disingenuous.

Lots of privileged men make a living from sneering at an establishment

Privileged? He grew up on a Bermondsey council estate. Still lives in Deptford. He's hardly Jacob Rees-Mogg. Everything he has (which isn't a great deal because a big spender/party animal) has been earned thru his own talents and hard work. Whether you or I are fans of what he does isn't really the issue

Believe it or not, there are some middle aged white men who didn't go to Harrow or Eton, and had to claw their way up out of the sink estate.

Lots of privileged men make a living from sneering at an establishment they’re categorically part of (Russel Brand...

Give over. I’m no fan of Brand but he’s hardly from privileged origins.

I think one of the problems is that more women are aware of MM and the press coverage of her, even if they are not royalists, because she is a prominent woman in the news, their friends discuss her, mumsnet discusses her etc. So they struggle to think anyone wouldn't know enough about her to immediately see the racial connotations in any tweet about her

By contrast, lots of men only vaguely register MM and so genuinely don't know what her background is. That's true of the men I know anyhow. It doesn't make them racists

Oh come off it. You would have to be living in a enclosed order or dead not to know this. Baker works at the BBC,I don't believe for one minute he didn't know MM was mixed race.

I know that the thread has moved on from the people of color discussion, but I would just like to point out that it was adopted in the US to avoid describing people as what they are not as it essentially replaced "non-white." Also other terms that might be used in the UK, such as "minority ethnic" don't work in the US because there are distinctions, some of which have legal ramifications, between race and ethnicity. All Americans have some type of hyphenated or double barreled ethnicity, sometimes it has a racial connotation (African American; American Indian/Native American) and sometimes it's a country of origin connotation (Irish-American; Italian-American).

I can understand why people might not like "people of color," but it is generally accepted in the US and certainly not considered racist.

Privileged? He grew up on a Bermondsey council estate. Still lives in Deptford. He's hardly Jacob Rees-Mogg. Everything he has (which isn't a great deal because a big spender/party animal) has been earned thru his own talents and hard work. Whether you or I are fans of what he does isn't really the issue

Not all privileged people are born privileged. He may not have come from a wealthy background but what he has (or at least, until recently, had) is money, a moderate level of fame, success, fans, and friends in high places. I’m not saying he didn’t earn it, but he absolutely did / does speak from a place of privilege.

All of that he got from his work at the BBC. That’s why I find it unconvincing for him to set himself up and some kind of anti-establishment voice of the people.

Not all privileged people are born privileged. He may not have come from a wealthy background but what he has (or at least, until recently, had) is money, a moderate level of fame, success, fans, and friends in high places. I’m not saying he didn’t earn it, but he absolutely did / does speak from a place of privilege.

All of that he got from his work at the BBC. That’s why I find it unconvincing for him to set himself up and some kind of anti-establishment voice of the people.

I thing DB is more likely to have friends in low places. And you're just plain wrong, not all of that came from the BBC. Some of it did, but he's an author of several books that have sold well, he's been a journalist (not always a BBC one), he makes football DVDs/Videos, nothing to do with the BBC. He came to fame aged 16/17 as the founder of Sniffing Glue magazine, an underground youth culture publication in the 70s. Janet Street Porter then interviewed him and she says she was impressed because she couldn't get a word in edgeways, which takes some doing!!! I doubt it's happened to her since. She then got him on to TV.

I wasn't aware the DB had set himself up as a voice of the people. That might be your perception of him, but I doubt it's self proclaimed.

Even if DB knew MM was mixed race, and he's admitted he knows about the monkey taunts of black people by scumbag racists, that still doesn't prove that at the time he posted the tweet, he connected those dots

And presumably he can't tie his own shoe laces either.

If you’re accused of being racist when you’re not why would you be defensive?

So if you're accused of racism and you don't defend yourself then you're racist, and if you do defend yourself then you're being defensive and therefore clearly racist.

I can't see why anyone could possibly liken this to witch hunting...

Oh come off it. You would have to be living in a enclosed order or dead not to know this. Baker works at the BBC,I don't believe for one minute he didn't know MM was mixed race.

Ok, I guess my male relatives are all monks/dead then.

Journalists, like readers, tend to know what's within their area of expertise. As I said, I'd expect a lot of female journalists (some male ones too for that matter) not to know about sports stories, however huge, however many column inches.

So if you're accused of racism and you don't defend yourself then you're racist, and if you do defend yourself then you're being defensive and therefore clearly racist.

There is a certain Ordeal by Water quality to the expected process.

Ok, I guess my male relatives are all monks/dead then

Astonishingly unobservant.Presumably they never open a newspaper, either real or online, never watch or listen to the news. I'm honestly puzzled that this fact could escape anyone. It's a bit like not knowing who the PM is.

His “apology” ( the first one - the second one was written by his PR I suspect ) was not only defensive but also dismissive. Both of which given the circumstances were atrocious.

This debate is beginning to remind me of a response to Freudian symbolism in dreams. A gun is not always a penis. Sometimes it really is just a gun. And a chimp is a chimp. Cute, cuddly. Not an animal to use as an insult. Like a pig.

I think there may be a generational thing going on, too. I've no doubt the comparison between black people and apes goes back a long time, but it really hasn't always been the first thing people think of here when they see a chimpanzee. Or a banana. Still isn't for me. In the 50s and 60s class was much more prevalent as a discriminatory factor than race and it's ingrained in DB's own experience. Toffs v the workers.

DB grew up and still lives in SELondon, for a long time the most diverse area in the country. There was a famous battle with the NF in Lewisham. For him, it's not a new issue. The problem on the terraces is just a minor chapter in a never-ending story, compared with previous times. It might be different for a younger person. I doubt if DB is up to speed with micro-aggressions and the correct terminology. He would remember the macro-aggression of the New Cross Fire.

His tweet about H&M a few days earlier relates to MM as an American divorcee, harking back to Wallis Simpson. In his mind, I think, that was the most remarkable fact about the marriage. Whether that shows that he was unaware of her ethnicity or that it didn't seem that important - who knows?

Things have different connotations to different people, different dots leading to different destinations.

But in the end, the unanswered question is how on earth did a motor-mouth like DB hide his racism from the world for 40 years and why on earth would he blow his cover now over a stupid joke and lose his job and his reputation?