To think social mobility in the UK is awful?

[cnwc]

AIBU to think that social mobility has actually got much worse in the last decades rather than better?

I think house prices in places like London have got a lot to do with it, and too many of the best jobs are located there.

It seems pretty much impossible for people to move up in the world

Really? Not many academics have fewer than three degrees and being qualified in several areas is a prerequisite in lots of careers.

I am not obsessed. I just heard you had a crap degree and if true, I think you’re a hypocrite.

No, you have never heard anything of the sort. As I wrote upthread, the distinction between fact and opinion (imagination, even) is unknown to you.

I don’t think you are an academic either. Don’t you advise rich French kids how to get into Oxbridge? Strange since you and your dc haven’t been undergraduates there

Why are you remotely interested in posters’ credentials? Why don’t you pay attention to the arguments and facts on the thread?

I am only interested in yours because you claim to be something you are not.

I haven’t claimed to be anything at all!

Yes there are lots of other costs associated with what you paid your plumber (who is only a small part of the plumbing industry anyway)

Maria- I can’t think of any careers where you need to be qualified “in lots of areas” especially if you consider how few careers a degree will qualify you for.

It does appear you’ve wasted your time in the same way your dead against poor children doing, from what I can see

Are you an academic?

IRL I can barely think of anyone I know with fewer than two degrees, apart from civil servants.

Not any more. But I was.

Maybe they’re all academics then. Not good for social mobility or earning power ironically!

DD had a boyfriend who was very bright working class. He had a history of not doing well in education, disruptive in class, was excluded a couple of times. Putting the pieces together I think there had been some domestic abuse before his parents broke up.

However as I say he was very bright, so despite not really engaging a great deal with education he scraped enough to go to an ex poly to study film. He messed around for a few years and got a 2.2.

Self esteem at rock bottom, he then had a succession of warehouse jobs and unpleasant call centre jobs. He’s currently unemployed with a big drug habit. (DD broke up with him a long time ago).

Thing is, this was a lad who obviously hated studying, but had a very quick brain. I imagine he’d have been a pretty good electrician, plumber, engineer or mechanic but he drifted down a mediocre academic route because “Only thick people don’t go to uni nowadays”.

And I do think a byproduct of this kind of situation is that many tradespeople are less capable nowadays. The kids doing trades now are often the ones who would have been doing manual work in my generation.

For what it’s worth I have a degree, a post degree diploma in a vocational subject and a Masters degree. All from the UK but one is from one of the oldest academic establishments in the world, one is from an ex poly and one is from a so-called plate glass university. All excellent places to study and I have been lucky the have two incredibly exciting and interesting careers thanks to them. Not bad for someone from a deprived town

Lawyers, consultants, financiers, doctors etc. It’s not always obvious that many people have “extra” qualifications in the form of eg specialist masters degrees in addition to their mainstream qualifications.

Why would he be a good plumber or mechanic? You don’t have to be clever to do those jobs. Being an electrician is a bit of a stereotypically “bright kid with little family encouragement” role though, I agree. Engineers generally need to go to uni, unless they’re take engineers (my friend was a beverage dispensing engineer: he fixed vending machines )

Lovely, howwudufeel. With three degrees it would be nice to think you were able to distinguish fact and conjecture. Post-truth world, hey?

None of those people are qualified from 1 degree. A degree is the basic qualifications then you need to do a post graduate qualification. A degree qualifies you for very few jobs (I can only think vet and dentist off the top of my head and they are longer than standard degrees anyway)

You need a certain problem solving ability to be a decent plumber or mechanic. And the really good ones end up with their own businesses. Lot of engineers go down the apprentice route, DS’s mate got a great apprenticeship with a car manufacturer.

Actually most people I know have at least two degrees and some post graduate certificates. I think that reducing the value of having a basic degree means that MA's etc are more common and then the certificates follow on once you are in your career and want to specialize.

My plumber is fantastic. It’s not an easy job - you need skill and imagination to create a safe, leak free water system with good pressure and drainage.

Actually a huge number of tradespeople are self employed, it doesn’t have anything to do with intelligence. In fact I’d hedge my bets most are in the U.K., or at least have been at some point. The problem solving involved in those roles really isn’t what I would call a high level of intelligence. I’m not doing them a disservice but most tradespeople themselves wouldn’t claim it’s a brainy persons job.

And you’ll notice very often tradespeople don’t want their own children to go into it. It’s a hard career, physical so often over well before retirement age, very often self employed so without security, and first to go in a recession. Not massively transferable.

Maria you don’t know anything about plumbing 😭

There is definitely an educational arms race that has encouraged students to continue to Masters degrees but there is also a need for people with a broader and deeper skill set than in the past.