To think social mobility in the UK is awful?

[cnwc]

AIBU to think that social mobility has actually got much worse in the last decades rather than better?

I think house prices in places like London have got a lot to do with it, and too many of the best jobs are located there.

It seems pretty much impossible for people to move up in the world

Whatdoesitmatteranyway Not everyone gets that first chance, even in 2019. Between inadequate schools, poorer SEN care in many areas, children who have never been sent to school or are pulled out (some who will get a good education, some whose parents who try after poor schools and SEN care fail them that are struggling for many reasons, and some who make up BS philosophies to do fuck all - and these all exist both in middle class and working class families), and numerous other reasons. FE colleges are often working hard to pick up the pieces for these young people.

My local FE college has recently brought in KS4 support to both help local schools provide wider options (from the traditional construction and childcare to engineering and several others) and try to help home ed kids get qualifications and bring kids already out of education back into it by offering a small set of GCSEs for those not in schools. I know of FE colleges doing similar as early as those who would be in Y9, 13-14 year olds. Many of these kids are already on their second/third/whatever try at education, many through no fault of their own. Some want nothing more than for this to be the next real step after so many missteps.

And yeah, some might dick around either for fun or because they have other issues like figuring out how they're going to eat over the holidays or how to cope when their parents drinking. All of these kids and young people matter and will continue to matter as adults. Even those who excel in school may need (or just want) to retrain with the ever-changing job market. The lack of accessible training hurts across the board and absolutely nothing is gained by just having a first and only chance at an age when children have so much out of their control. It only hurts social mobility and progress to not make education something accessible across the lifetime.

I don’t know why you mean by fourth rate degrees that nobody cares about. You may not care but the student and their families are no doubt very proud of their achievements and their attempts to get an education.

Pure eugenics

But relatively few of them, and identifying these students as examples of how the system did work is an example of survivor bias.

Decrease in social mobility has gone hand in hand with the increase in wealth inequality. Increasingly, wealth in the UK is concerned treated in a smaller group of people while the poorer group at the bottom of the pyramid increases. It then gets harder and harder to access that wealthy level. There are members of the current government for whom this is an ideological aim. They would like the wealth and power to be concentrated among a small group of privately educated individuals, who pay for private healthcare and don't make much use of public services. The rest of us proles will have to settle for the crumbs they throw out to us.

The cynic in me suspects that underfunding of education is deliberate to create a population who are less likely to question the powerful elite. Most other wealthy countries prioritise education because they consider a well-educated population to be a positive thing. The lack of emphasis the current government puts on education (and the arts/culture) only makes sense see if they don't want well-educated citizens.

Sorry for typos, should say wealth is concentrated

I really do understand the point Maria. You are the one always banging on about mixing with the children of commuters and degrees that are worthless. It’s embarrassing what a snob you are. Are your dc the same?

I’m one of six dc we are all late forties upwards. I’m the only one who has moved social mobility wise. Three live in social housing all have had mainly min wage jobs for life. I went to a Red brick university and met a privately educated sort of old money type. We married, our families could not be more different.

There is one difference I am the product of an affair, I didn’t meet my Father until I was almost 14 and knew nothing about his family. His other dc are also all professionals, two are incredibly wealthy. DH says my life is an example of nature over nurture. But attending a good University opened up a world of mixing with people from a different herd. There is one downside of true social mobility, some of my family see me as posh and a snob. One sister has been especially vile about it for decades now. One of my students dropped out of his studies due to the pressure of being different. He was so clever and had got a place under widening participation.

I state facts, howduyufeel, not my own opinions.

Dear god.

Maria is yet again proving my rule that mumsnet really shows that success in life is nothing to do with intelligence, ability or hard work.

You ought to do some more reading.

I doubt whether she is actually successful. So much of what she says doesn’t ring true. She slags off rubbish degrees, giving the impression she is super clever, but the truth is quite different.

I haven’t slagged off anything, howwudufeel. You need to learn to distinguish fact and opinion. The distinction is seemingly unknown to you.

You talked about young people wasting their lives doing rubbish degrees Maria. How is that not slagging off their achievements?
You still haven’t denied you have a marketing degree from Bristol Poly. I am interested to know if I am right because it’s precisely that kind of degree you are saying is worthless.

I most definitely do not have a degree in marketing from Bristol Poly. I don’t have a degree in marketing from anywhere. But I also do not think a degree in marketing is worthless. You are jumping to an awful lot of conclusions based on no information = opinion and conjecture.

The U.K. government does plenty of analysis of outcomes for university degrees and unfortunately many are worse than worthless because they make for worse outcomes than no degree at all. Stating that is not “slagging off achievements” but an expression of real worry at the deception being enacted upon unsuspecting youth. No one should be tricked into spending a large amount of money and the key years for training on something with no or negative value.

The more opportunities there are to mix with people outside of one's own social circle, the greater the exposure to other lifestyles, other lifestyle choices, other career aspirations and other careers.

Literally broadening one's horizons.

University can do that, even if one studies for a 'rubbish' degree.

Social mobility is never going to happen if young people spend vast sums of money and their formative years learning absolutely nothing.

Just partying with a large number of other young people is not sufficiently horizon broadening to justify the cost and wasted years. The opportunity costs of some so called degrees are staggering.

What degree do you have then and where did you do it?

I’ve got three degrees from three different countries.

You will never admit to where though will you?

It’s not a question of admitting anything. There is no degree requirement to converse on MN and whether or not posters have no qualifications at all or several PhDs is irrelevant. You seem slightly obsessed with degrees so why don’t you share your qualifications in this thread?

There is no point in anyone having 3 degrees to be fair Maria

Don’t get carried away with that TFbundy, most plumbers don’t earn highly. It’s all a bit 2008 daily mail headline “plumber earns more than barrister shock” isn’t if