To think social mobility in the UK is awful?

[cnwc]

AIBU to think that social mobility has actually got much worse in the last decades rather than better?

I think house prices in places like London have got a lot to do with it, and too many of the best jobs are located there.

It seems pretty much impossible for people to move up in the world

More grass roots than the just saying education. It's about how you access which education, where, and with whom. Much more complex.

More grass roots than the just saying education. It's about how you access which education, where, and with whom

Exactly, my childhood & who I lived near, played with, went to school with had a much wider socio-economic background then my children experience.

I see what you're saying and I suppose a lot of it depends on your definition of middle class. I grew up on a council estate, mum a single parent on benefits, we were immigrants etc. Now have a degree, masters, postgraduate qualifications, a fairly good career as does DH. We are early thirties, own our own home, comfortable lifestyle although not mega earners. Neither of us have ever lived anywhere near London. Can we afford private education for our DC? No, probably not. However, the state schools in our area are all good / outstanding and have good reputations. I don't feel my childhood / background has held me back in any way, nor the fact I've never had family money to see me through - part time work and loans/ bursaries saw me through my higher education with no input from family.

Katniss I think social mobility was a lot better under a labour government, I agree your achievements aren’t unusual for someone of your age (obviously they’re very impressive, but someone of your background achieving that before the financial crash was fairly common)

YANBU. The best place to start, to get things moving, would be a full revolution in the state education system.

I agree with BogglesGoggles - the difference between private and state education is vast and not captured by official data (exam results) so people with no experience of anything beyond state education cannot conceptualise the inadequacies of state education nor plug the raps.

Gaps

The current state of social mobility suits a lot of people. You only need to read the higher education threads on mumsnet to see that.

KatnissKringle I have friends who have achieved similar. Immigrant parents (as I have) council estate background but worked hard & have good jobs etc but I think it’s a lot harder to achieve that now.

Social mobility has got much worse in the last 20 years and I agree it is partly due to parents gaming the schools admission process.
However the issue of Private education is a red herring. Academic private schools are hugely socially selective due to cost and they only pick winners. Their exam results are good because they only admit kids who would do well anywhere. It's not going to private school that makes you a success. You wouldn't get in if you weren't going to be a success anyway.
Normal middle class families can't afford private school anyway unless paid for by inheritance/windfall etc.

The disparity in pupil premium, the money spent on Theatres and museums in London and other affluent areas and the austerity cuts which have caused local councils in the north to suffer massively (oddly the Home Counties haven’t had the same experience ) all cause social mobility. Then those stupid peasants have the audacity to want change and vote to leave the EU. Who could have foreseen that?

DH and I are working class made good. First in our families to go to uni, done quite well for ourselves, kids on track to do the same.

But I do despair of some of my kids’ working class friends. As bright or brighter than my own kids, but absolutely no realistic aspirations. So many of them seem to think something amazing is going to just turn up. I know really bright kids doing mediocre badly paid office jobs and their parents think they have made it. And of those who do go to uni, so many doing courses that seem unlikely to lead to a decent job.

We need massively better careers information. We need to expose the lie that all unis and courses are equal and career enhancing. And we need some way of giving young people the confidence to look outside their safe little bubble.

Both my girls have friends with mums who have cried, actually cried about the idea of their daughters going to uni or moving away from out failing little town. People can be shockingly selfish and clingy.

What do you mean by social mobility?

I think its quite easy to climb up the ladder. It is really whether somebody wants to. Sometimes people born into poverty don't get encouragement.
Also feel that a lot of people see working class as a badge of honour and being middle/upper class as snobs that are part of the problem.

Working class doesn’t mean you can’t be successful, get a good education or job, or be socially mobile the vast majority of the country are working class. Having a degree and owning a house doesn’t make you middle class you know

I know this doesn't apply to all by a long chalk but from posts on here most days it seems like the men in "high powered" and "high earning" jobs are too stressed to even function in a family setting and the wives of these men are brow beaten into being SAHM mums against their will and resent them. Middle class children are trapped in a pressurised environment with tutors and huge expectations placed on them at primary age. People are homeowners on £100,000+ salaries and still complaining money doesn't go far enough.

I don't want that life for my children to aspire to. As long as they have a roof over their head, food on the table, have a comfortable work life balance and are happy then I will class them as successful.

Also feel that a lot of people see working class as a badge of honour and being middle/upper class as snobs that are part of the problem.

Very true - for example all the posters on mumsnet who are terrified that the name that they’ve chosen for their baby maybe ‘posh’.

Wish That’s quite interesting. I agree a heathy work life balance is something to aim for.

But I honesty believe, and tell my kids, that society is becoming more polarised; the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer and it becoming increasingly hard to cross the divide. I’m aiming for my kids to be on the right side of the divide. Eldest is there, next two are in uni but should be okay, youngest is still at school and bright enough with the right sort of interests (maths and computing) to do very well career wise.

Both DH and I did degrees for employment, rather than what we loved. It’s what working class kids did in the 80s. When our kids were small, in the boom days of new labour, we happily imagined our kids could go to uni to chase their enthusiasms in art or drama or music and still be able to afford to live a good life. We don’t feel that is the case now. It’s all about building a career.

Having a degree and owning a house doesn’t make you middle class you know Funny, cos whenever I try to assert that I am not middle class, I am working class and have worked my working class arse off to get to Uni and buty a house, I get told I am most definitely middle class and "have been very lucky"

YANBU

If ever there was an insidious way of keeping working class kids in their place then it's internships. Yep, you can have the great job if you're prepared to work for free for a couple of years - but only people with wealthy parents can work for free can't they?

I'm really angry, and astonished that it's even legal. Ban internships to start with - that will help.

You are assuming there is wilderness outside of London

Hardly an unusual point of view on MN. Yes the economy might be centred on London but that doesn't mean the rest of us are living in caves and scratching a living keeping sheep or something.

@ By whom?

@CuriousaboutSamphire by whom?

It’s gotnothing to do with house prices. It’s about education. Only 10% ofchildren go to private schools so they are the only ones that benefit from a full education. State schools simply do have the funding to reach anything outside of of the curriculum and most parents don’t bother so the pupils completely lack tuition in etiquette, elocution, reason skills, high cultures, general extra curricular etc. About 70-80% of people are completely inadequately prepared for life in Britain as a result and by and large fail to secure well paid employment but they have no idea why because they are in the majority so their inadequacies are largely invisible. It’s actually very surprising how many British people are completely blind to their own etiquette.

I think that's stretching the truth a little.

I work in an excellent private school and went to a below average comprehensive school.

The differences aren't so stark as to mean that a hard working, determined individual cannot access educational success. Yes, they probably won't have the same level of 'added extras' but it isn't extra curricular provision that gets you a good job.

We also definitely don't teach etiquette, elocution or high culture (whatever that last one is!) Nor do any other private schools that I'm aware of. That sounds like the curriculum of a 1950s finishing school.