Which Crime story has shocked you the most?

[JoeyBartonHanson]

So I have just been watching a documentary about Becky watts murder and everything about it was so shocking.

Me too ssd.

I despair of the horrors out there.

Me too ssd.

And all I keep thinking is “women and children women and children.

I know we should see it in context but it's horrifying.

What makes some men utterly hate women so much to even contemplate some of this stuff?

ssd not that it excuses or minimises their crimes in the slightest, but a lot of these people, had completely shitty lives from the get go.
For example: If you research into Charles Manson’s childhood and upbringing, it’s not all that surprising that he ended up as fucked up and capable of such crimes without remorse I guess it’s quite easy to see how someone whose has never been shown a hint of love or empathy in their own life, would fail to develop an ability to use those emotions like a normal, well adapted human being A lot of the “famous” serial killers all have shitty, often abusive, childhoods, surrounded by unhealthy relationships in common.

Well I’ve been studying that. There is a huge correlation between dysfunctional mother / son relationships and serial killers. Massive over simplification there and I don’t want to de rail the thread but if anyone cares to look up some of these monsters and their childhoods, you will see a pattern. Also violent / authoritarian fathers / child abandonment into care homes.

Cross post with Into

Parrot I did a lot of research into serial killers when I studied Philosophy & Ethics at school! One of the module choices was “What makes a murderer?” And I was shocked at just how many of them had completely abysmal childhoods. Reading about some of them made for some really upsetting reading, but then I had to have a word with myself and remember that those abused children grew up to rape/brutally murder/both hundreds of people between them

@Into I totally get that inner battle. I have a son myself and feel appalled at what some of them have gone through. Fred West lost his virginity to his own mother for example. Levi Bellfields mum dominated him and spoke about his ‘cock’ in a telephone call overheard by police.

But then there are so many children who are abused that grow to to be absolutely wonderful people. I think it’s only human to have a level of pity for the child ‘that was’ if that makes sense.

Parrot that’s exactly it.
Sad to think that If someone like Charles Manson had had a “normal” childhood, grown up, become a used car salesman, with a wife and 2.4 kids, 8 people (9 including Sharon Tate’s baby) would have lived

I wonder what it is in some people that can have an awful childhood and turn out OK and others turn out to be monsters.

ssd it’s all very complex, but ultimately comes down to the way the brain processes trauma.
It’s the same kind of thing as soldiers coming home from war. I’ve got friends that I served with, who all went through the same things, yet some of us are fine and can live a normal life, some of us have complex ptsd, and one of them has committed suicide since. It’s all about how the brain processes and stores particular traumas and memories

Exactly this

Also men who feel powerless in childhood often need to find that power as adult. Ian Huntley, Albert Fish, Ed Gein, in fact nearly all of them.

Not to be too yucky and graphic, I remember reading about Rose West and how she regularly had sex with her own father, from teenager to 30s. She encouraged it. Then when she tried to have sex with her son he was horrified. But if course he was abused like his other siblings. I thought what makes one person think this is acceptable and the other person doesn't?

Human psychology is so complex. Hormones (testosterone’s impact on the brain) ability to process and cope as Into says, intelligence. Sometimes all the wrong combinations come together and terrible things happen.

I’ve just read Heather West’s book. It’s so insightful. She has turned out into a lovely woman despite her parents.

ssd from the books I’ve read about the West’s, Rose didn’t have friends outside the house growing up. Her father ruled the house with iron fist (paranoid schizophrenic) and her mother suffered bouts of deep depression. So in all likelihood, she didn’t spend enough time with other kids in a social setting to realise that it wasn’t normal, until she was in her teens.
Her children however went to mainstream school, had friends, and lived pretty normal lives outside the home - so presumably would have realised early on that the things that went on in their house werent normal, and didn’t happen in their friends’ homes.
That’s my guess anyway

Someone mentioned Ted Bundy above and what if it were a film. The film has been made. Zac Effron plays the part.

Madison Horn. Happened near me and I had some knowledge after the fact. The house had to be completely gutted where the murder happened and was empty for a long time. Local feeling was that it would have to be an out of area tenant who would move in there.

Liam Fee. Every red flag missed.

There're been several films about Bundy, the one with Zac Efron is just the most recent

And the best! Brilliant film.

Mikaeel Kular. Dreadful end to a little boys life , and his 'mother' who allowed the townspeople to search for 2 days and nights in the cold of January , in the full knowledge that he would not be found. Those people would have gone home exhausted and emotionally wrung out thinking "if I can keep looking , I might just find a clue ..."

He wasn't even found where he lived. She'd dumped him in a completely different county away from Edinburgh after visiting relatives, in the woods behind their house. Of course, the people in Edinburgh and Lothian and Borders Police weren't going to find him. 😭

Lindsay Rimmer
Remains unsolved and her parents live close to me, I can't imagine their pain everytime they re open the investigation. She was such a lovely girl.

Sorry this is why i dont buy the "They had a bad childhood theory-Some people turn out very well rounded individuals-its just an excuse

I just looked up Junko Furuta too, I think that may be the most horrific thing I have ever read in my life. To make it worse the sentences received by the perpetrators were an utter joke. I hope they never know a minute of peace in their accused lives, I really do.

Honestly, I am generally very anti corporal punishment, but for utterly sadistic subhumans like Junko's torturers, the torturers/murderers of Sylvia Likens and Kelly Anne Bates, and the likes of David Parker Ray and the Toolbox Killers, where there is no doubt of their depravity, culpability and utter evil, I think that they should be subjected to the same torture that they inflicted on their victims.