Told off by nursery staff member - AIBU?

[SinkGirl]

This happened when I was picking my twins up yesterday, and for some reason it has really really upset me and is on my mind this morning.

My twin boys are 2.5, they both have ASD. They have been going to nursery two mornings a week since January and they love it there. One is in the baby room due to his developmental delays, the other is in the toddler room.

The staff know that my life with the boys is a whirlwind with all of the appointments, therapy, and work we are doing with them - on top of being a mum and a carer I’m basically a full time PA managing everything.

Yesterday I was waiting on a call from a consultant with some information on a test one of the boys needs to have.

I went into the toddler room to get one of the boys, there were two members of staff and three toddlers including mine (the others were asleep with the dividing blind down). I’d been in there a few minutes and they were filling me in on what he’d been up to as always, when my phone rang. Withheld number so probably the hospital - I said excuse me and went to the corner of the room to answer it.

After about 60 seconds, the room leader came over looking very concerned and said “can you get off your phone?” in a very abrupt way. The other staff member was changing my son’s nappy at the time so I thought maybe there was something wrong, so I apologised to the consultant and said I would need to call her back.

But no, she just wanted me off the phone. I then realised they must have a rule about parents not being on their phones in there, which I totally understand, but it was really important - she must have heard I was talking to his consultant from what I was saying.

If that’s the rule (which I wasn’t aware of as I’d never normally be using my phone when collecting them) that’s totally fine, but she could have just asked me to step outside until I was done - the way she told me to get off the phone made me think she needed to talk to me urgently for some reason.

I couldn’t get hold of his consultant afterwards and she’s not in now until mid next week so I won’t be able to get the info I need until then.

I don’t know why this has upset me so much - it’s made me feel like they think I’m a shitty distracted parent, I guess. It’s not like I was on Facebook or playing a game. It’s so hard trying to juggle everything and they are well aware of this. I hate breaking the rules and I hate people thinking I’m a bad parent (which happens a lot when you have toddlers with ASD!).

I think a large part of my reaction is the fact that I’m a dreadful perfectionist and never feel like I’m doing a good enough job. I’m sure most people would think I’m overreacting and to be honest I agree that I am, but it’s really bothering me much more than it should.

If she’d just asked me to step out or gestured for me to do so I would of course have done that, I would never knowingly break a rule like this. We’ve spent a lot of time at children’s centres where you’re not allowed to use your phone at all and I never have.

Argh, why am I so upset about this? Am I just being ridiculous?

Even if there was a rule in place about not using mobile phones the nursery worker’s response was rude and inappropriate. YANBU, therefore.

Write a letter explaining your behaviour and the reason for it so that the nursery knows of your situation and how important the call was. Say that, in future you will need to take very important calls but will step outside to talk to consultants and others who are vital to your sons’ well being.

OP, you sound stressed and I am not surprised with all that is on your plate and with having to deal with people of this calibre.

Crikey, this has all got a bit bonkers.

On the one hand, I understand the people who look at this situation and think it’s madness that you can’t take a phone call in nursery - it certainly wasn’t immediately obvious to me (clearly!). I also agree that if someone had nefarious intentions they wouldn’t need to get their phone out and start snapping - very possible to buy and wear a camera that no one would ever see or know about (which is a horrifying thought, but true).

However, I don’t think it’s true that it’s based on paranoia - I know from personal experience that you can’t tell who intends to abuse a child just from talking to them, most child abusers are very good at coming across as normal, that’s how they get away with it.

I also know that, for some children, an entirely innocent photo with them in the background and posted online could have catastrophic consequences.

So I fully understand and support the policy of no phone use...

However, I’ve just been though the parent info pack with a fine tooth comb. It’s not in there, phones are not mentioned at all.

I went through the safeguarding document too - staff’s phones being locked away are mentioned, but nothing about parents’ phones.

So I didn’t actually miss it, which actually makes me feel a bit better. Maybe there’s a sign somewhere that I’ve missed? I don’t think so, but it’s possible, and I will have a look round for one tomorrow.

I won’t be complaining in any way, but I will ask them to update the parent info and put up signs. The frustration of knowing it could have gone differently is definitely still there.

Hairycakes I find it a little disingenuous that your intention was to be supportive when you said you find my posts painful and called me a martyr. Maybe that’s your style of being supportive - if so, quick tip: it’s not very effective.

I still think it’s paranoia because it’s based on a case when a nursery worker filmed herself abusing the children in the toilets. She wasn’t filming the kids playing in the nursery.

I get that, but I think from a safeguarding perspective, the risk to a child whose identity and location must not be revealed online is a perfectly valid and important reason on its own to not allow cameras / phones to be used.

I really do fully understand that - weirdly I would never have taken a camera into nursery, I would have known that wasn’t okay, as I wouldn’t have used my phone to take pictures either. I just didn’t think that about taking a call being an issue because it didn’t occur to me that someone could take photos while having a conversation on the phone (especially when standing in a corner with their phone to the ear, pointing at the wall and nowhere near the two kids who were still in the room).

I get that it’s much easier to just make a blanket ban on all phones, and that this would make those whose kids need additional protection measures feel much safer. I’d never want to undermine that intentionally, and definitely do not think that any phone call is more important than other children’s safety, despite what some here have assumed about me.

I am annoyed that the policy was never communicated to me as I could have handled it differently.

As long as everyone’s aware not to take photos upload them on social media I still don’t see why a total phone ban is necessary. Getting into the habit of not uploading photos of other people’s children onto social media is what must be learnt in order to protect children.
I see no reason why someone would be pretending to have a phone conversation while secretly filming nursery children playing. If you really were a paedo there are plenty easier places to film children playing.

You can't have phones out in a nursery. There's no debate about it. After the serious child abuse cases in nurseries involving phones they cannot risk anything and the manager was absolutely right to tell you to get off your phone immediately.

As a primary teacher I am only allowed to have my phone in the staffroom, no other part of the school. Visitors have to hand their phone into office staff on arrival. It may seem over the top but schools just cannot risk having phones on site with young children.

Yes contrary to some beliefs on here schools do mainly have phone bans in the classrooms

Parents don’t notice because unless you volunteer (I do) you don’t notice because it doesn’t cover the playground or if they have school performances but it’s still there for staff members. Teacher friends on mine all have fitbits as it means they can still be connected

The issue here has always been the fact this policy wasn’t communicated to the OP. Not whether the policy is right or the room leader was right to stop her on the phone

FFS. Even if you don’t read the whole thread, maybe just read the last page where I have explicitly accessed this (for the 827th time).

stairway while I agree to some extent, I think a blanket ban is much safer as some people would upload those photos without thinking of the consequences. It’s really no problem not to use your phone during pick up / drop off provided you’re aware of it and can make arrangements for urgent situations such as this (eg tell the staff you’re expecting a call and go outside of it rings).

To all those saying there are other times I’d have been unable to answer - no, there aren’t. No matter what I was doing, I’d have taken that call. I don’t drive (DH drives us to pick up and drop off as it takes both of us to do it safely). If I did, I’d either have an approved hands free system, or I would have attempted to stop somewhere, park and answer the phone. If I were in a work meeting, I’d have excused myself. This was important and not someone you can just call back at a convenient time. We are even going to a consultant appointment on DH’s 40th, preventing us from going away on a planned trip, because his specialist only does clinics at our local hospital once every three months and it can’t wait.

The issue here has always been the fact this policy wasn’t communicated to the OP. Not whether the policy is right or the room leader was right to stop her on the phone

Exactly Quartz, thank you!

I still think that the policy is over the top. There isn't really any difference between nurseries and schools in this situation and most schools don't take phones off parents should they need to visit for some reason. That has certainly never happened to me anyway. Yes, in phones are often banned during classroom time for staff and pupils but that would be to stop them being distracted rather than to prevent any photos. As for putting photos on the internet, schools do that all the time as if the child's name is not underneath they can't be identified. I think when they were at primary school we just to sign a form if we didn't want them to be photographed otherwise it was assumed it was okay.

And yes they should have communicated it. As I said to the a leisure centre recently (regarding a nonsensical "health and safety" reason for not letting my 17 year old do something that they allowed adults to do even if they were in their 80s), they can have whatever policies they want but they need to let parents know and put a sign up especially if the policy is not going to be obvious.

I never said I was trying to be supportive
I was giving my take on the situation from the reams of information you provided. That’s generally how these forums work.
To me there’s more at play here and I simply named the first thing it sounded like and suggested a GP visit.

Yet the drama Huns have decided that’s “harassing” and have talked at length about my “behavior”.

I mean really. But then the whole thread shows you can’t say boo to a goose when all these pages are because someone asked another person to get off the phone

It’s very remiss of the nursery to not put anything about their mobile phone policy in the parent info pack, or any obvious “no mobile phone” signs up around the nursery.

I wonder if a blanket phone ban is one of those things that seems so obviously necessary to them (with the benefit of their safeguarding training etc) that they haven’t stopped to consider that it’s not automatically going to be obvious to a parent, if the parent hasn’t come across this situation before.

Asking the nursery to update parent info and put up signs about their mobile phone policy sounds like a sensible idea.

I’m going to have a good look round for signs in the morning - it’s possible I’ve just missed it, seems unlikely as I generally read signage, but there is quite a lot of stuff on the walls in the corridor so if it’s not very prominent it’s possible I missed it.

The main toddler room is separated from the hallway by a gate - I only realised a few days ago that the room also has a door (I’ve never seen the door closed before, only seen it closed that one time). There were some signs on that door I think, but nothing bold and obvious - looked like fire escape plans to me, all quite small text. I’ll check it out.

I’ll definitely flag it up to them politely - there’s a good chance the staff are often having to tell parents if the parents aren’t aware of it, which may explain the abruptness.

It really should be in the info pack and I automatically assumed it was my error in missing it, but I’ve carefully read it three times this morning and the words mobile or phone don’t appear anywhere. The safeguarding documents says that only cameras owned by the nursery can be used to take photos but that’s as close as it gets.

Hairy you’re so disingenuous, it’s quite amusing. You were being nasty, when called on it you tried to make out you were commenting out of concern, and now you’re back to being snide when you realised it wasn’t working. You suggest I’ve posted reams of information - yes, I post on MN a lot, I don’t have much support in real life and sometimes I need to talk about what’s going on. That’s sort of the point of the site, not being analysed by an armchair psychiatrist who has little idea of wider context.

HairyCakeLineham If you weren’t trying to be supportive, then you had no business offering a potentially very serious MH diagnosis of the OP online. What was your purpose in doing that? It was playground type bullying, pure and simple.

Mental health conditions shouldn’t be bandied about lightly, and definitely not as a means of attacking an OP who is clearly going through a rough time.

“Bullying” “Attacking” “Harassing”

Sheesh 🙄

To put this all in perspective 10 years ago there was none of this safeguarding and no children seemed to suffer because of it at my children’s preschool although they might have done. No children will have suffered because you spoke to your consultant. It’s just the way the world has changed and now they have these safeguarding procedures they all have to follow them rigidly and there are many benefits of course. It’s a shame she couldn’t have been polite and of course it was upsetting and bad circumstances, I would have been upset and frustrated too, it’s because you have so much on your plate and are doing your best to do a great job, which it sounds like you are. If you talk to the woman she might be defensive which won’t help. Next time say it’s the doctor, answer the call and walk out. If she brings it up be vague and unaware.

I’d let the policy continue to be as hidden as possible and let it lie. Gives you more scope to answer your phone or before you know it there will be signs up and you will have to leave phone in car.

Yes @HairycakeLinehan that’s exactly what you were doing, which is why your posts have been deleted by mumsnet HQ.

I usually do leave it in the car - it’s fine, now I know I would just step out if I needed to use it, that’s no problem. Just wish I’d found out about in calmer circumstances and without the confrontation which I don’t cope with very well (as you can see )

You might want to change your name to Hairyhands, Hairycakes. You know exactly what you did - now I know what you said (and what a vindictive awful thing that is to say to someone in my situation, which you clearly know about as you’ve been reading my posts), I’m absolutely staggered that you even tried to pass it off as concern. I’d like to think you feel bad, but I’m almost certain you don’t. I hope you never have to be in the same situation yourself.

@HairycakeLinehan Oh come on. If you get caught out being really unkind, at least have the decency to own it and apologise. Don't pretend it's something that it's not.

I’ve already said I shouldn’t have actually named an actual illness, that was silly of me and I’ve said that a few times now.

I won’t apologize for not being in the “poor you babes” camp though and for using a forum for what it’s intended.

Poppy my eldest started school 15 years ago. There definitely was safeguarding. There was a policy not to take photos and a policy to not use phones in tne building. Safeguarding is not new.

Silly? You read through my posts and picked up on something that you knew would really upset me (no doubt you read about my decade of being treated like a faker / drug seeker / crazy person before my endometriosis was eventually diagnosed, and about the difficulties I’ve had with my health in the last few years and the fact I’ve been completely fobbed off - you may have even read the thread where I recounted this and a shocking number of other women commented with their own near-identical experiences of medical attitudes to women’s health issues). You may have also read a previous comment in this very thread from another parent of a disabled child, talking about how the fear of being accused of having this type of problem plays into our fears, thoughts and actions.

The fact that you knew from my comments that I was in a highly distressed state, makes it even more disgraceful.

I really appreciate others calling you out. If nothing else, this thread has shown me that there are some lovely people here. It’s not about sympathy, it’s about empathy, but clearly you’re not blessed with that.