Boyfriend going to lunch with female colleague.

[boyfriendwhatsapp]

I posted on here a couple of weeks ago about my boyfriend. He had a conversation on WhatsApp with another woman that he then deleted, which set alarm bells ringing.

I’ve been monitoring the situation since, and another conversation appeared this morning. Basically I have gleaned from the conversation that they go for lunch together at work. He has never mentioned this colleague to me, and when I’ve asked him who he’s gone for lunch for he says, ‘nobody, I was on my own.’ She was quite flirty, putting all sad face emojis when he said he wouldn’t be in for lunch that day. He wasn’t flirty and replied quite matter of fact with her on this occasion, but the small part I saw of the deleted conversation was a bit flirty.

When we were discussing boundaries at the start of our relationship, I said I didn’t think it was appropriate for a man to take another woman out for sit down lunch/dinner, and pay for it. That I thought it was a bit weird and looks strange to outsiders as that’s something a typical couple would do. I was very clear with my opinion on it and he agreed with me. Now I’m concerned he’s basically agreed with me but now is lying and doing it behind my back anyway. As well as the deleted WhatsApp conversation with her previously, the whole thing just screams dodgy. Why lie about it? Maybe he is worried I’ll be paranoid when there’s nothing going on, but it’s even worse to lie and delete conversation?!

He is a lovely partner in all other regards though, perfect even. I’m not sure whether to confront him now or continue waiting and watching, as this may be something that is more serious than I know of at present.

The most important question to arise out of this thread is whether it is OK for bi-sexual people to have sit down lunches with people they are not in relationships with?

Or, what if you are straight and the other person (of the same sex as you) is gay or bi? Is that allowed?

These rules are all very confusing. Which come to think of it, is probably why I don't bother with them. And ALL of the religions can kiss my arse as far as their rules go. I am a non-discriminatory religion rejector.

Smaller. Here is where people have a comprehension problem on MN -

If I tell you that, “Most friendships I have had with men have become complicated” this does not need to be interpreted as - “Women and men can never have platonic friendships.”

If I say, “I tend to have more meaningful friendships with women” - this does not need to be interpreted as, “Women and men can never have platonic friendships.”

If I say, “I would personally tend to back off if I suspected I was making a male friends partner insecure” - this does not need to be interpreted as, “Women and men can never have platonic friendships”.

If I say, “My DH’s views wouid matter to ME more than a male friends’ - this does not need to be interpreted as, “Women and men can never have platonic friendships.”

If I say that I personally would not be messaging an individual male friend, unless it was part of a group chat, this does not need to be interpreted as “Women and men can never have platonic friendships.”

If I say that I do not know any women who meet other individual men socially, this does not have to be interpreted as .... you know the rest.

The fact that some posters need to jump on an honest, individual perspective and twist it into “sexism” or “over-sexualisation”, speaks volumes
about their own insecurities. It blocks meaningful debate and reduces everything to binary, repetitive arguments.

Similarly now, if I tell you I have friends who wouldn’t meet men individually for lunch because of slightly different cultural perspectives, this does not need to be interpreted as, “I believe all women should stay indoors / never sit down at lunch with a man / live in the Middle Ages,” or whatever nonsense quips people will extrapolate.

I am simply saying there are different views on this. It is what it is. I’m not saying I live like these friends, yet they certainly exist. Would I accuse my friend who doesn’t drink alcohol -“Oh well then you are clearly saying all women shouldn’t drink alcohol and I find this backward and I am highly offended blah blah.” No I would not. People need to be able to accept a view as different to theirs and not assume it’s intended as a reflection on them. When they do, that’s their own insecurity speaking.

Follow them to the restaurant. Hide and watch. If anything happens jump out and shout 'a ha you bastard. I caught you'

Also, lunch today was great. I bought my DH is pizza and we sent mocking photos of our desserts to my mate, the wife of the MAN I was having lunch with.

She was furious. About the dessert, not the husband bit.

@silver, you said that - and this is the exact word you used - invariably every male friendship you have ever had became a sexual relationship. You can try and back pedal as much as you like but that reads to me as if you have zero experience of opposite sex platonic friendships, ergo you don’t believe it’s possible.

The relevant post is on page 11 if you want to check what you said.

If you want to focus on the word “invariably”, then yes, that is true, but I certainly did not say I have had sex with any man who approached me a friend.

What I mean is that “invariably” (if not always) when I have become more exclusive / closer / “friends” with a man (whatever you want to call it) in the sense that we might go for coffee together or be messaging, a sexual / romantic element tends to creep in which can get complicated.

Can I repeat to avoid confusion - I am talking about my own experiences here. I am NOT, I repeat NOT saying this is true for everyone. I am NOT saying this means platonic relationships are impossible etc etc.

Its called a personal perspective.

Well, either you’re an irresistible sex goddess or every man you have coffee with has the most rampant and indiscriminate of libidos but your experience is so far removed from the experience of most people that it’s not really relevant here in the real world where most people aren’t defined by their sexuality.

Not having experience of something does not mean “ergo you don’t think it’s possible” No, not at all! Where do you get that from?

I don’t think I have ever had a male platonic friend, no. This is the truth. So shoot me!

Maybe Im interested to consider why this is? Maybe I like to hear how other people’s lives are different to mine? Compare and discuss - have a nuanced , interesting debate?

God only knows why certain people need to get so defensive.

Or Alsohuman, rather than just shutting me down as “defined by sexuality” in a paragraph of the usual defensive language and “quips”, you could think, “Well that’s not my experience, but hmm, maybe some people do find platonic relationships tricky and I wonder why that would be...”

I AM an irresistible sex goddess but I even manage to avoid frisson with my equally married colleagues.

It’s not me whose being defensive. Where are the “quips”?

Well, language such as “rampant”, “irresistible sex goddess” etc. It reads as sarcasm and sarcasm can easily come across as defensive / aggressive.

You are also telling me my experiences aren’t relevant in the real world. But who on earth are you to decide that?

silver3

But in your earlier posts you weren't particularly understanding of other people. You came across as quite judgemental - that any female who is friendly with a man is being disrespectful to his partner etc etc.

You didn't come across as saying "this is what I do. It's interesting that others do it differently" but now you are complaining that people have reacted to what you said.

My experiences are relevant in the real world because I exist in it in the same way as you do.

But maybe my personality, background, circumstances and consequently outlook are different to yours?

If I think of who zi wouid identify as my closest friends these days (I’m 42) they are six women who I met at college between when I was about 18-20. I have no male friends from going back to this era of my life. Even during this era if my life, I obviously had contact with all sorts of men, but my friendships were always female. That was not by design or something I even thought about. It’s just what felt comfortable for me. If I think of those six women, none of them have had male friendships either. Again, they are not paranoid or sexist. Some people are just not inclined that way, I guess. It’s the truth. Why is it anything to get aggravated about?

silver3

Because you have changed your tune.

Your original posts were very judgemental. You were coming across as "my way is the right way and the rest of you are just disrespecting the other wives"

Decomposing - What I was (and still am) judgemental about is the attitude that some women seem to take that it’s not their responsibility to consider the feelings of any girlfriends /wives their male friends may have.

Yes you are right, I don’t understand how anyone could feel comfortable if they thought they were causing anxiety to a girlfriend or partner in this way. I wouid find that awkward.

But please understand, here I am ONLY talking about cases where there is anxiety for the partner. As relevant to the OP and countless other threads in here.

If people then start getting all defensive and regaling everyone with stories of how their DH is super-cool with their male friends, etc etc, well that’s lovely and I don’t doubt it for one second - but that’s not what I was talking about.

On balance I think I would rather be an "Irresistible Sex Goddess" than a "Needy Desperado".

Leetle bit pot kettle there silver 😉

You keep using the word defensive. It is interesting. Is it because you feel like you need to defend your position so you are assuming everyone else feels that way?

I just like arguing on the internet.

I just like arguing on the internet.

This ^. For me, I can't actually have a proper argument or debate in real life because people will get defensive and probably feel insulted. also, people don't tend to randomly bring up these kinds of topics. Seeing as they are real people in my life, it'd cause issues with their relationships. Part of the reason people like these internet forums is its a place where we can argue and debate and not have to deal with the fall outs.

Well I agree with you there actually Grey.

As for the “Needy Desperado” yes I did say that, but Pleadr understand once again, I am absdolutely not saying that all women who have male friends are all needy or desperate!

I was referring to the behaviour of particular women I have experienced, who do become awkward, needy or seem a bit desperate because for whatever reason they can’t seem to adjust well to their male friends having girlfriends or moving on. I think many of us will have experienced this kind of behaviour at some point? I know I have and when I did, I found it bloody irritating. I have the example of the woman who acted bizarrely when I met DH. I have also experienced this kind of behaviour from women at uni and it wasn’t pleasant.

Again, I am not saying all women with male friendships come anywhere near falling into this category and thank god for that.

Don't you two dare start agreeing.

I'm enjoying the bunfight and nowhere near ready for a conciliation scene.

As a mild aside, I remember when Mike Pence announced that he never has lunch with a woman unless his wife is there (apparently that’s a fairly common social norm in American Evangelical circles – it’s call the Billy Graham Pledge) I read a really interesting article in one of the main papers about how attitudes like this are a surprisingly major barrier to women in many professional jobs. Men in senior positions who won’t socialise with women in a work context are basically shutting down access to informal networks and mentoring which in many careers (law was cited, and I think a lot of business as well) is then utilized thoroughly by other men.

Bit sad to realize the extent to which this extra layer of glass ceiling is being enforced by other women!

forestafantastica Yep.

I’ve been reading through all the replies on this thread, and I think sadly my original post has been misconstrued and people haven’t read my subsequent posts. I’m not really interested in talking about the specifics of my personal situation anymore, as this whole thread has been derailed into name calling and personal anecdotes which is not relevant or helpful to the situation at this point.

Of course it is fine to have female and male colleagues who you are friendly with, that you go for occasional lunches with and socialise with outside of work. I think where the line needs to be drawn or a conversation needs to be had is when it starts to become uncomfortable for any party involved - that for me is going for ‘sit down dinners’ (by which I mean restaurant type meals, not grabbing lunch in a canteen or McDonald’s!) on a regular basis i.e a few times a week. Which incidentally my partner brought up, not me, it was never a case of passively agreeing to my ‘rules’ because I am a controlling, paranoid nut job. Putting the snooping issue aside, which I was actually encouraged to do on another thread, I don’t think most rational people would be happy with their partner meeting the same woman multiple times a week for restaurant lunches AS WELL AS having private WhatsApp conversations that are deleted, texting one another to arrange said lunches outside of work hours, being sad and down trodden that you didn’t get to go for lunch that day, messages that can be viewed as flirtatious... I highly doubt that most or anybody would be particularly happy with this situation. Described above is very different to just having a male colleague you chat to at work and go for lunch with on occasion.

I also find it very difficult to understand the lack of any empathy or consideration for a partner/wife as described by some on here. I would hate to feel like I am upsetting, causing an awkward dynamic, stepping on toes in somebody else’s relationship. And I too have known the women who go out of their way to go on about their ‘male best friend’ to the point it is awkward for all parties involved.

People have different perspectives on things and that is okay. It’s all part of the rich tapestry of life, it doesn’t mean one side is as a whole a nut job, sex goddess, desperado

Exactly OP. This thread got ridiculous with people going on about their own platonic friendships which was completely irrelevant.

I would not be happy if my DH went out to lunch with that regularity with one woman, who also sent flirty texts and he had lied to me about it. Such a different situation to what everyone else on here is describing.

Now my Dh will sometimes have work lunches and dinners with female colleagues. I don’t mind because it’s not the same one over and over again and he doesn’t lie!