Moaning about being ‘poor’ when rich

[freetone]

AIBU to think if you are childless, go on 3 holidays abroad per year and live in a 4 bed detached house on a private road then you don’t have the right to moan about being ‘poor’? My DF and his wife have been like this recently. He earns over £150k a year. It shows how far away from reality they are imo. Really gets on my nerves when there are millions of people genuinely struggling. Anyone else experienced people like my Father?

I realise I will be flamed for this but I will never understand people choosing to have children when they do not have enough to live on themselves. I am not counting ‘ accidents’ or those deserted by partners in this as they might have exercised no choice in the matter. But I know that my DH and I waited ten years before we even contemplated affording children and ensured we had accommodation to house them.

I have had it explained that poor people have as much right to have children as rich ones and I perfectly understand that. After all, I was not rich when I had mine and they never had the toys, clothes, holidays and experiences of their richer friends and they survived well. But I would not have brought children into the world to be poor and deprived and then have complained about how badly off we all were.

But I would not have brought children into the world to be poor and deprived and then have complained about how badly off we all were

Who are you to make that judgement? How do you know who are the deserving (in your eyes) v non - deserving poor without a thorough assessment of their financial situation?

Teacher22 You seem to have missed the point of this thread

If you have little disposable income and less than someone on benefits and are earning £100k this is down to choices that you are able to make

And as for those like myself and many others we are not driven by money but would rather not be patronized by people claiming that you can not live a comfortable life on £100k (especially in London) it’s utter rubbish

I live in London work for the NHS a valued job for our society and i earn a third of that (including my tax credits that go towards childcare with me topping it up) I can assure you that I do not have anywhere near 5k income a month but manage as many of us do with mortgages/rents to pay along with all the other expenses (and I also pay professional body fees)

I do get 20% off Nando’s with my NHS card though

I once had a mum crying on my shoulder (litterally) over how unfair it was that her DM was taking her two younger sisters to Japan but not her, I had to explain to her that while her sisters where in their late-teens/early twenties and childless she was in her mid-30's married and with children of her own and that she needed to get a grip.

She couldn't understand that while her mother was taking her sisters to Japan, she had also been paying for her luxurious appartment, endless gifts for her two children, as well as her household staff (a cleaning lady coming in everyday, a nanny/ a cook, an Au Pair and 2 chauffeurs!), yet she felt she was entitled to more and life/her mum was being unfair. Some people really live on another planet.

I am earning pennies (in comparison to her and many) and still find ways to go places I want to see and do things I want to do, I budget for it and sacrifice other parts of my life to make it happen. On paper, I am poor, in reality I don't feel poor (most of the time) and quite feel like I am making the most of life, actually.

People who don't value what they have get on my nerves though, if I ever earned 6 figures I probably wouldn't know what to do with it (even if living in London). I currently live in San Francisco where 100k is actually considered poor and barely livable, truth is, life is expensive but my closest friend lives on 20k and survives, yes, she can't afford half of what most people can afford but she has a GREAT life, within her means and is thriving. I earn similar and I am also thriving and even able to save. Yet I spend my days with tech people who can afford to buy run down houses for 3 millions but will complain about how broke they are and how they feel they are living pay check to pay check.

£100 k goes nowhere in the South

that's strange as I live in the south and manage to keep myself and three children fed and housed on 19k a year (wages + tc). Ok we dont go on holidays other than a weekend away but its definitely not the norm to earn 100k around here.

What is frightening is that jealousy and envy have become political motivators and are now driving policy in a way to entrench resentment and bury aspiration. No one can be proud of doing well or providing for their family in this country without attracting the ire of the faux angry.

Seems it was so long ago that you used to put 2 bob in the meter that you may have forgotten the reality of it.

I mean it must be envy driving this anger right? Envy of having enough food to eat for a month without having to skip meals, the envy of sitting in the cold knowing you've only got enough in the meter to make breakfast and put the heating on in the morning, the envy of not having a section 21 notice on your house because the car broke down and no car means no work.

All the things my best friend is currently going through, I'm disabled so I'm not that far from that position myself

There seems to be quite a few people on here unaware of how expensive being poor is

www.cpag.org.uk/content/end-poverty-premiums

@BitBored @Micah

Here's a monthly calculation. I never said I intend it to be an 18 year plan, but would be nice to have a two-three year break while the children are young.

Current situation, rounded to make it visually easier
Current net pay: £5260
Childcare: £2800, without emergencies and with a contribution to the school holiday fund. I need childcare 7am to 8 pm most days (9 to 6 job with commute), and sometimes up to midnight in the high season.
Housing: £1380
Ticket to central London: £230
Council tax, energy, water, internet, mobile: £310
Professional subscriptions, CPD and insurance: £150 (prorated across the year).
Left for food and "flying lessons" and "five star holidays": £390.

Welfare (calculated with entitled to)
Assuming
Salary of £850 / month in a local term-time job
Childcare costs of £700 / month / child (on a high end for four hours a day, but let it be)

Gives benefit top ups of £634.56 / week.
Same expense profile with no season ticket and no professional expense gives net of £427.

A no brainer really, isn't it?

Yanbu op, I am frequently by people claiming to have no money.

I'm fairly baffled though by everyone on this thread needing to be identified as 'poor' or 'rich'
For me:
Poor - nor having enough money for a decent life and/or living hand to mouth/ having no money for emergencies (but not through daft spending)
Rich - having actual wealth or a ridiculously high income (well above 100k a year regardless of whether in London or not)

Within this there are 'average' people who have to budget carefully but can afford occasional holidays etc and people who are comfortable/ well off but to describe as 'rich' is .

It feels a bit like a lot of people define rich as having more money than they do and poor as having less.

A no brainer really, isn't it?

Well no because when your dc are at school you will have a high income and much lower outgoings. At the risk of stating the obvious this is why many people have a larger age gap between their children. Not that it matters in the long run as long as you are able to ride out the short term.

Actually silver if your dc are at school you need to find a different job.

@naomifrommilkshake That makes no sense. Clearly you're not from "the south". £100k would go plenty far here in the south and would definitely constitute as a very, very good salary. Now that I'm back at work DH and I have a combined salary of £60k. We are very fortunate and live very comfortably. And we live in one of the most expensive counties...

Yes it would be funny if it wasn’t! I’ve recently been off work nursing a very sick husband. I was talking to someone going through similar about how I was a bit worried about paying for bills and mortgage as we’ve both earned load less for a few months. The lady agreed and said she was in the same boat. Then later in the conversation spoke of the three houses that they rent out..

drama we are ok short term but if it continues above 3 months we will struggle. I grew up in a home where money was tight so know from experience how hard it can be. I even struggled myself too.

A no brainer really, isn't it?

Do you have any savings? Isa?

All new claims are now put on Universal credit. If you have savings over £6k you get nothing.

Plus once your kids are at school you will have that 3k/month back. Over 10 years you will pay 30k in childcare, which you will recoup in 10 months if you keep your current job.

Seems a no brainer to me.

Plus once your kids are at school you will have that 3k/month back
How does it work? No after school care? No holidays then?
The reality is that if I want to keep my job, I will have to have full time childcare / pay a huge retainer for a nanny on stand-by anyway. Average primary school absence is around 5%, with two children it means that 1 in 10 days one of them is off due to some sort of sickness (which seems in line with what we have currently, thankfully the current nanny is understanding and does not ask for overtime in this case). I cannot just call in the morning and say - hey, I will be off today with a sick child. I won't honestly last two months with a behaviour like this.

No savings, no ISA.

I think people are being a bit hard on silvercuckoo.
Many of us, including myself, have sat down with a benefits calculator and worked out whether it's worth working extra hours or not.
After much number crunching, I reached the conclusion that my income would be the same part time or full time (once childcare costs and tax credits were taken into account) and I duly negotiated a job share.
If I've understood the situation correctly, silvercuckoo doesn't have the option to do the same as she has no recourse to public funds. Perhaps (if for eg she's on a tier 1 visa) she has to demonstrate a high income in order to continue to stay in the country.
This is an enormous pressure for anyone and its very understandable that she would look forward to the day she can get in definate leave to remain and have that pressure relieved.
I feel like people have maybe missed the immigration aspect here...

@silvercuckoo you likely will be better off when your DC go to school as wrap around care is cheaper and then once they've been there are few years things will significantly improve.

I say that not to be argumentative but to offer hope. 15 years ago when my DD was in nursery in London and I was paying 1700 pcm and pregnant with my second, childcare seemed insurmountable. This year (having moved almost a decade ago to a FT and then PT nanny with arrival of number four) we stopped formal childcare.

@Teacher22 you had some of my sympathy, up until the point you question why poor people have children. Looking at it in a logical way, our biological drive is to create more life and pass our genes on, regardless of income or social status. Not everyone has that drive but judging by population levels, most do. If everyone in the world had to live in a house with at least 2 bedrooms and earn a certain amount before having a baby, the human race would become extinct I reckon. Even in the UK, having a house with a room for each child is very much a modern thing for the majority (and not something we can afford even now). Our great-grandparents often didn't have such a luxurious lifestyle.

@silvercuckoo

A few of your assumptions don’t quite add up here.

Welfare (calculated with entitled to)
Assuming
Salary of £850 / month in a local term-time job
Childcare costs of £700 / month / child (on a high end for four hours a day, but let it be)

1. You said you’d work 16 hours a week. To work 16 hours in a term time only job (I’m assuming 38 weeks a year as term time) you’d need to be on about £16 an hour to bring in £850 a month. What type of work would you be doing that commanded that wage on a part time term time only basis? It’s almost double the national ‘living’ wage.

1. Most term time only jobs will be in school hours. If your DC are school age then why would you still need £700 per month per child worth of childcare if you worked during school hours and term time only? If your DC are aged 3 or 4 they’d be entitled to 30 hours free care which would reduce your childcare costs too.

1. With a season ticket costing £230 a month it sounds like you live outside London and commute in. It’s unlikely that you’d get all of your £1380 housing costs covered as most LAs outside London will cap housing benefit (or the housing element of UC) at below that level.

Given that it sounds unlikely that you’d be entitled to anything like the amount you’ve suggested.

teacher22, I’ve said it in my previous posts and I’ll say it again: More money makes rich people turn into arseholes. Whatever your family said/did to you whilst you were “rich”, was probably because of your attitude. You probably belittled them with your “working hard” statements. Someone who doesn’t understand why poor people should pro-create, doesn’t deserve to be part of society. People like you selfishly want the world to be only full of rich people? How can anyone even think like that. Sick.

I consider you well off (maybe even rich) if you can pay all your monthly bills and be able to cope with the inevitable bill rises, without a pit in the bottom of your stomach worrying about the day your income wont cover said bills.

I'm a sahm, my husband is fairly high ranking within the emergency services. His income would be considered by many as high, but we do live in the south east & it is expensive. That said, we do run 2 cars now, our children do activities, we do activites, we can eat out occassionally & have food in the cupboards. My husband is also paying a sizeable payment into his pension. I realise we are very lucky & can reduce outgoings if needed but it wouldn't take too much of a price increase for our disposable income to be wiped out.

@Bitbored
Just what the calculator offered me, I entered exactly the same rent of £1380. It did warn me that not all of it will be covered.
I am in London, zone 5, that's why the housing is relatively cheap, at the expense of 90 mins commute, but that is what I could afford.
£16 an hour is what a charity local to me pays for a part-time accountant with a basic bookkeeping qualification. Term time as well. I think a teaching assistant will be around that wage level too.
The rest of what you mentioned (cheaper childcare, free hours subsidy etc) just moves the balance towards being better off on welfare, not worse, no?

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't class myself as poor or struggling. But posters who imply that a salary of £100K buys you private flying lessons (presumably to fly your private jet), private schooling or second holiday homes are also delusional. And the stories about people who claim to live on £6K a year with a young family and no government assistance are probably not 100% transparent.

Well, I think we are rich.
You wouldn’t guess as we don’t dress in flashy clothes, wear expensive jewellery or drive expensive cars or eat out in expensive restaurants.
We take three cheap winter sunshine holidays a year . Other times we tour around the uk visiting friends and family.
Other times we stay each week at our second hand static caravan, that look old and tired when we bought it and have now done up, in a field with no amenities other than electricity and sewerage which means ground rent isn’t extortionate and we have the peace and tranquility we crave.
Our home is a nice but modest semi detached bungalow. ( memo to oneself you must hurry up and fix the garden)
I feel we are rich because we are living well within our means and
We have the freedom to do what we want with our lives.

As regards Maslow triangle of needs we have food ,warmth and shelter.
Reasonably good health to live according to what our bodies.
I’ve woken up at 11 as I had a bit of disturbed night so am now ok to do the day.
I’m grateful for the excellent life we have and long may it continue.
My grandmother was born in 1896 and lived through extreme poverty , she had to go into an orphanage, no running water, electricity or heating at the flick of a switch..and two world wars early widowhood and certainly never owned her own home.

Believe me..I’m rich.
( I’m grateful and I share the bounty)

Those entitled to websites often wildly over estimate what people are entitled to.