Moaning about being ‘poor’ when rich

[freetone]

AIBU to think if you are childless, go on 3 holidays abroad per year and live in a 4 bed detached house on a private road then you don’t have the right to moan about being ‘poor’? My DF and his wife have been like this recently. He earns over £150k a year. It shows how far away from reality they are imo. Really gets on my nerves when there are millions of people genuinely struggling. Anyone else experienced people like my Father?

A PP mentionned being annoyed when "rich" relatives wont go to a particular restaurant for example because it's "too expensive". I can totally relate to that. You can only spend every pound once. When I say I can't afford something, it sometimes means that I have allocated all my money elsewhere (including savings) and I won't dip into my savings for that activity.

For example, I've decided to stop having my hair coloured. It was costing roughly 200 euros a go (Paris is expensive!) And although it is by no means a choice between that and eating or paying bills, I dont have enough disposable income to get my hair done and save the amount of money I want to.

I don’t care where you live, £100k isn’t poor. Circumstances and choices may mean you have very little spare cash, but that is not the same as having benefits sanctioned and needing to use a food bank.

If you earn enough to make choices then you aren’t poor.

I can say this as someone with a household income of over £100k yet I slide more into debt each month. But I make choices. My life is still a million times easier than families living a quarter of a mile from me.

Oh god the people saying it's relative etc, it really isn't! If you're on a high wage and finding it tough to live you have options, if you're on a low one you don't. We're a one income family, husband is on 50k euro and our in laws say we're rich. It's hard listening to when you're trying to get by sometimes and we've been in arrears, close to having electricity cut off and struggling for food but then pay day comes and we can fix some of it but they're all on social welfare and they never have a pay day coming by to save them

From the outside looking in, things often look better than they really are.

Everyone has a bag of rocks.

My mil was wealthy. Stingy, unhappy and afraid that someone was going to take her precious things. She never enjoyed her family. Everything was for "show."

She gave it all to her most selfish son. Who is exactly the same. He's alone and wealthy.

I told him that I've been broke and I have been alone; being alone is much worse.

He doesn't believe me.

I married the better brother.

snoutandab0ut

The difference being you live alone. We don’t, we have a family and additional caring responsibilities. I expect I’d manage comfortably on £40k by myself too. So no, not utter tosh thank you. Please compare like with like.

I have a relative who cried poverty for years. They said they couldn't even afford a cup of coffee when out. They let everyone pay for them whenever out.

A couple of years ago they bought a villa in Spain, cash.

The benefits system provides practical help and financial support if you are unemployed and looking for work. It also provides you with additional income when your earnings are low, if you are bringing up children, are retired, care for someone, are ill or have a disability.

So if you take all the benefits into consideration: Tax credit.
Housing benefit.
Child benefit.
Disability Living Allowance.
Income Support.
Council Tax Benefit

What is the threshold everybody is living with? I cannot believe someone on minimum wage does not get at least Housing benefit to make up the shortfall?

Let's be honest @kafkesque, what you know about benefits could be written on a stamp.

People who earn lots and moan they are broke are doing so because they fritter their money away.

So, instead of staying in a 2 star hotel, they go 4 or 5 star.
Instead of buying a £4.99 bottle of red, they pay £13
They shop in Whistles, not H&M.

Having experienced more expensive things they won't compromise. They may have no money left at the end of the month. That isn't because they are poor, but because they are spoilt.

"what you know about benefits could be written on a stamp."

you are not wrong there, that's why I am asking why won't anybody say?

kafkaesque

If you receive housing benefit then you’re subject to the benefit cap. This is £20,000 for a couple or single parent, or £23,000 for those in London.

www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/benefit-cap-amounts

So definitely not £42k or anything like it!

It is always about the disposable - what is left after subtracting what is owed from what is earned. Also some people are spenders and others savers. Expectations play a large part in whether one thinks one is poor or not.

A high earner in London might well be ‘poorer’ than someone on benefits in a less well off area when housing costs are taken into consideration.

What I do not like about these comparisons is the amount of jealousy and resentment felt by some for others. Largely, you get what you want and are prepared to earn. So what if others have more? I don’t care about other people who have big mansions, fancy cars and are dripping with jewels and fancy phones. I have , largely, what I value. I don’t envy anyone. If I wanted gold taps I’d get off my backside and earn the money to pay for them. But I don’t. I would rather have the time and autonomy than the money.

YANBU. I have family members who are driving Ferraris and sending their children to private schools, and have loads of paid off houses on rent, so they’re making millions a year. Yet every time I meet them, all I hear is how expensive things are, how they bought everything in the sale, how they’ve gone to so and so sale. I know they’re rich and rolling in it. They know they’re rich. Just cut the crap and stop being arseholes. 🙄

Also so sick of hearing about £100k not being much in London

When people say they, they just mean that no you can’t actually afford a four bedroom house, foreign holidays, two cars and private schooling on that. Which you really can’t, in London, but might be able to in Newcastle or Norwich. £100k household income gets you a reasonable middle class lifestyle, which you could achieve on more like £50k in cheaper parts of the country.

Nobody (I hope) is suggesting that people on £100k in London are in need of food banks. Clearly they aren’t.

Thank-you BitBored

Does this mean if you have housing benefit then a family of four has to survive on maximum of £20,000/£23,000 a year? That includes:

Housing benefit.
Child benefit.
(Disability Living Allowance.)
Income Support.
Council Tax Benefit

That makes sense then.

When you have a yacht you will always want a bigger yacht

@silvercuckoo if the info about your sil is correct she is claiming both benefits and council tax discount fraudulently. It's rare but it does happen.

The gratitude posts are lovely but that's easier for some to do than others, not only depending on income but health. I really struggle with this as I am currently suffering a very deep depression. I try to but I find it very very difficult.

@Mrsgrannyweatherwax

I honestly couldn't be with someone like that again. My ex came from a middle class background to my working class one, he never went without as a kid and never worried about asking for money for school trips etc and never experienced his parents needing to say no or worrying about money. When we first married he drove me nuts on this subject! We were both on similar low wage but it hadn't seemed low to him until then as he was used to living in barracks and his mess money being deducted at source - both of which are heavily subsidised. That meant the money that went into his bank each month was purely spending money. When we moved into a married quarter (still subsidised but not as much) and of course had to start paying bills and cover groceries etc like everyone else it was a shock to him. I was used to living on a budget but I also had (still have) a fear of not having money for food etc (I'd already experienced being homeless before this point too). He was of the mindset of "I'll just use the overdraft" or "well I'm in a super secure job I know I'm getting paid every month for next 10-15 years" we ended up having to have a "big chat" as he was overspending on luxuries every month and it was causing me serious anxiety AND costing us in unauthorised overdraft fees and letter charges. He had no idea how much he was spending as he never added it up, to him it was "it's only £5" "it's only £10" so when I sat him down with all his receipts (yes weirdly he always got receipts!) and showed him how much it all added up to he was shocked - and even more so when I showed him all the bank costs and how this money compared to various bills. After "the chat" he was better but still not great.

"All these comparisons are meaningless unless you take into account all costs (mortgage, rent, childcare, travel), benefits, freebies and cash gifts and then look at the change left over" I get what you're trying to say, but above the minimum necessary they're variable and largely a matter of choice.

OP I get what you're saying about you mean child free people - but having dc is a choice too. And I say that as a claimant. When I had my dd I was in a well paid job & happily married. Circumstances change unfortunately but I have to say I wouldn't choose to have children while already not working and on benefits. It's not fair on the child/children and it'd be incredibly stressful on me as a parent.

"Shows you don’t have to have smarts to accrue cash I guess"

Unfortunately this REALLY applies to those in power who are deciding how much is enough to live on! As that article re John McDonnell pointing out how few mps have the first CLUE about the economic reality for MOST families in this country showed, we have far too many people who have NEVER experienced even middle class levels of income deciding this!

I do wonder what the hell kind of voter possibly thinks that the likes of David Cameron - who comes from incredible wealth and was extremely economically privileged right from birth - could EVER understand how it feels to have to decide whether to use your last 50p for bread or milk, to fear being unable to pay the rent and losing your home... That's as far from his experience as his wealth is from ours!

"We all in this country have access to clean water, healthcare, education, etc" not necessarily. The homeless especially street homeless can have real difficulties accessing these even in this country.

"but I don’t think you would be looking at a nice little house with a garden suitable for a family" see that to me SCREAMS privilege and unawareness. There's millions of families living perfectly happily in flats in this country a 'nice little house with a garden' is absolutely not a necessity it's a luxury. My grandparents raised large families in smells tenements. My mum is on of 6 and was raised in a 2.5 bed tenement, dads one of 5 and was raised in a 2 bed tenement, now I'm not saying that was a good thing, but a 'nice little house with a garden' is still a pipe dream for most families.

As for "a significant part of your monthly budget" that's true for EVERYONE! A quick google suggests an average of 30% of income for rent in the uk and advice to renters says to allow a minimum of 25% for rent - and that's advice to those likely to be going into houseshares or similar. Even going on net income that's £1650pcm approx for someone on £100k to be paying the same proportion of their income as rent as most others.

My rent is 37% of my income and I'm in social housing! Someone on £100k paying the same proper optionally would pay £2000 pcm approx. Pretty sure that would get you somewhere fairly nice even in 😱 london! It's normal that a large proportion of your income is paid in housing costs.

"And remember that a single earner on £100K will be less well off than two earners with a combined income of £100K." How on earth do you figure that out?! 2 people 2 X costs plus things like losing single person council tax discount.

As for 'poor people hope to die before reaching pensionable age" fuck me!

Have you ever read Jonathan swifts a modest proposal?!

art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

It's right up your street! JRM wants to take us back to the 1800's you seem to want us to go back to the 1700's!!

FionaDragon - but at a point rents cannot be any cheaper than they are! Social housing etc isn't as cheap as I suspect many of those with no experience of these on this thread believe!

"will definitely drop down to 16 hours and spend more time with my kids" oh ffs! Get real! On numerous benefit bashing threads the bashers are challenged to consider doing exactly that - quit or reduce hours and claim if they think it's that bloody easy! It really isn't and they know that as do you!

Op you're right it's not hating high earners it's shock and disgust at high earners who WON'T ACKNOWLEDGE their privilege.

I have friends of all backgrounds from on bare minimum benefits up to extremely wealthy and privileged but I wouldn't be friends with them if they had the attitude they had it hard when they don't!

@Splodge and @mortgages

there's job related costs for many on far lower salaries/wages too including cpd, equipment etc nah not buying this as an excuse for pleading poverty when on nigh on £100k I'd love to know the comparison as a proportion of income.

"Can someone enlighten me please. Doesn't the tax credit system level everything at the lower end of the pay scale? Doesn't it make everything up to around £42,ooo or abouts, with benefits?"

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Errrrrrrrr no!

Where do people get these ideas?!

Someone on £100k paying the same proper optionally would pay £2000 pcm approx. Pretty sure that would get you somewhere fairly nice even in 😱 london

Two bed flat in Brixton, actually. Which is why that is what we live in.

Like I say, perfectly comfortable standard of living, never have to worry about paying utilities or affording food. But no we can’t afford a car and we can’t afford three bedrooms, or a garden, or to live in a “naice” area. Not complaining, just clarifying that when people say a £100k household income doesn’t get you much, we don’t mean “can’t afford gold-plated taps and only one trip to Barbados this year”. We mean can’t afford a car after rent and nursery fees are paid.

? Doesn't it make everything up to around £42,ooo or abouts, with benefits?

That’s hilarious. I wish! I earn 21k, topped up by cb to 22.5k . Another 1.5k in Tax credits- although that is top bracket and if I do any overtime I have to repay at the end of the tax year.

If i get moved to UC i will lose the TC completely as I have an ISA as my mortgage repayment vehicle. Over 6k in saving and you get nil.

42k!!! Where did you get that? Same place as pp who reckons she’ll be better off giving up her 100k full time job and working 16hrs + benefits?

90% on here are like that. I think some people are detached from reality. However we are all the same and illness and disease do not care about how much one earns.

Persimmon... maybe they are rich BECAUSE they buy everything in the sale? Buying things in sales isn't pleading poverty it's loving good value/A bargain and can be an admirable trait. Why overpay?!

We earn 25k between us and are only entitled to child benefit.

I've generally found that for food, bills, a bit of flexibility for saving or luxuries you want to have about 2k a month. So on 100k single earner, assuming you put 10% in a pension you are left clearing 5k a month.
So providing your mortgage, childcare and cars cost less than 3k a month you should feel pretty OK.