9 year old entirely unable to get herself ready

[shitholiday2018]

My daughter is bright, sociable, articulate, lovely. She’s great company too. However she’s driving me mental. She is completely unable to get herself ready in the mornings. It drives me mad and, after numerous reminders, cajoling, encouragement, I end up shouting. This actually slows her down but I can’t help it as it seems so deliberate, yet it’s not. She’s not being disobedient, she just seems unable to stay on message.

I need to get to work after drop off so I can’t do the whole ‘we’ll Just be late and you explain it’ thing. Her sister is two years younger and gets herself ready on her own, even doing her own hair and feeding the animals. So there is contrast which doesn’t go in her favour.

You tell her to do a job and she either does 20 per cent and gets distracted or does none at all. She goes to do her teeth and ten minutes later she’s just singing to herself in th mirror. She half heartedly brushes her hair but actually gets nowhere. She doesn’t wash her face. She forgets her socks. She can’t find her shoes. And so on. It’s driving me insane.

I suggested a tick list this morning. She cried and said it was babyish. She wants to sort it but genuinely doesn’t know how. Cross mirnings make us all sad. Does anyone have any other suggestions? She wants to start walking to school on her own next year and I’ve said she can’t - I’ve said if I can’t trust her to do her teeth without micro management, I’m not trusting her to look carefully as she goes round the corner (no major roads, pretty safe walk). She has no road sense despite 5 years of walking to school with me prompting - look, listen etc. Unprompted she walks out without looking even now. Again, drives me wild.

What on earth can I do with her? I’m desperate for her to get more independence (apart from this issue she’s always been an old head on small shoulders, v mature in other ways bizarrely) but just can’t get her to take any responsibility for herself. At her age I was getting myself up and ready for school and taking myself there. Surely being able to get herself ready at 9 isn’t too big a demand?

Would love your wisdom pls. I hate shouting. She hates it too. I want a better solution, but I also want to get to work on time.

When diagnosing personality traits of children over the internet I very much doubt there is much "scientific fact".

I think this is quite a balanced article.

autisticandunapologetic.com/2019/03/16/is-everyone-on-the-autism-spectrum/

Reason I bothered to google is that the one DD I have who has always been extremely efficient at getting ready in the morning is the socially awkward one who thrives on rules and order and gets upset by change. She has exceptional recall of random detailed facts in her chosen fields of interest and empathy is not one of her strengths. She is not "on the spectrum" but if I were to ask the MN jury for advice on some of her more infuriating quirks I would get lots of "helpful" posters suggesting she is.

My dd (7) has dyspraxia - completely unorganised and I'm dreading secondary. I have always said she lives on her little planet full of sunshine and fairies and unicorns!

How are her motor skills - is she clumsy? Bad handwriting?

Sounds very much like ADHD (inattentive type)

Look up inattentive adhd in girls. She doesnt have to be hyperactive. These type adhd often go under the radar.

After school - can you offer any evidence?

I just don’t see how it can be when we are all so wonderfully different.

Hence neurotypical would have such a wide range of potential features as to render it limitless, and therefore straying into neurountypical. Hence my spectrum belief.

Seems like lots of these kids, including my daughter, are potentially somewhere in between. And that’s fine.

She sounds exactly like my 9yo. Ive recently been diagnosed with ADHD, and am now sure he has it too. But, there is not a chance he would get a diagnosis through education psych / NHS as at school he is totally fine, and it isn't having a negative impact on his life. So I'm now just trying to help him develop strategies that he can use to help him with the parts of life that are / will be more challenging for him. I confess there is lots of frustration and quite a bit of shouting, though!

@proudwelshmaiden, if you think he is going to struggle in the future it's worth getting him into the system as his difficulties may become more visible as he gets older and life gets more complicated and he may need to have a 'label' to prove to doubters why he is struggling.

It took us five years to get DC1 an ASD diagnosis as he just wasn't struggling enough to tick the paediatrician's boxes. Primary school there were no issues, as far as they were concerned he was a model pupil (his ASD does not produce behaviour disruptive for others, he's the only one affected). He was finally referred to the psychologist team and even they took ages to assess him.

Hi, this was a sore point between my mother and I all my childhood. I couldn’t tie my own laces (still struggle) and my brother ended up tying my school tie secretly every morning so he didn’t have to listen to the argument. I have a lot of other issues with gross and fine motor skills. My mother shouting at me has still impacted my confidence years later

I would take her to a GP to find out if she has dyspraxia

She sounds like my dd(9) she is NT apparently although I think she has dyslexic and dyspraxia traits.
She needs reminding what to do all the way through every task and even then she’ll come down with her shirt inside out or she’ll have forgotten to take her pjs off and they’ll be under her clothes. Drives me mad.

We are absolutely not all on the spectrum. You're either autistic or you're not.

If you don't meet the diagnostic criteria you aren't, if you do you are.

It does look like some kind of executive functioning issue with your dd, though. Could just be executive functioning as a stand alone or part of anything from dyspraxia to adhd.

Once again though we're not all on the spectrum.

Sounds very much like ADHD (inattentive type
I’ve been recently considering if this is DD she really struggles at school and can’t focus but because she’s not disruptive she flies under the radar.
Maybe she’d just 9 though it’s hard to know when kids are just going kids.

Ps hope all these good suggestions on this post hope help your DD OP.

Op you may not be keen on diagnosis but unless there is an issue that needs to be identified then neither am I. We do not all live on a spectrum. That kind of chat diminishes the struggles that people with identifiable developmental disorders face. I'm not saying your dd has adhd or dyspraxia or anything else but if she does then not labelling it will not make it go away.

But neither will labelling it, surely? I do feel there are so many labels these days. If we accommodate differences generally, in everyone, that better than labelling all these kids?

I accept it’s different if it’s extreme and affects home life education etc. That is not us, by any stretch of the imagination.

Labelling helps with identifying needs precisely and assists supporting those needs, without a diagnosis you don't know about all those needs as some may be hidden.

I was an undiagnosed autistic for 38 years. I knew I was different but not why and I blamed my differences and inability to do things with ease on me being somehow wrong. I just couldn't do some things and very much turned that inwards. It affected my self esteem and mental health.

It was the autism diagnosis that began my journey towards clawing back my self esteem. It helped me realise that the reason why I struggle with things is because my brain is wired differently, not because I am somehow lazy or stupid. I'm not there yet, 38 years of damage will take a long time to undo. I'm still unnecessarily hard on myself too.

So yes I'm very 'for' labels based on my own personal experience. As I say it may just be an executive functioning issue unconnected to any other developmental diagnosis but you don't know that unless it's investigated. And whilst there are ways to assist knowing why the issue exists always helps find the most appropriate solution.

But society doesn't accommodate differences generally. Identifying a specific difference won't make it go away but it will enable her to access support and offer her a greater understanding of herself. Since I was identified as being autistic I have been able to get a better handle on my mental health and even my own mum finds it easier to understand me.

Surgeons and Formula 1 use checklists. They're extremely grown up! If you get the book The Organised Mind, there are some great tips in there. If you can sort this a bit at primary, it will help a lot at secondary. Speaking from experience, she will drive her teachers and you potty when it's coursework time!

Following up with ADHD. I was diagnosed as a adult and my consultant said that women were massively under diagnosed. Look closely around yours and her dad’s family as it is strongly heriditary. Me, my husband, my son, my dad, husbands mum and sister. If it is ADHD, she’ll be feeling worse than you about it and the sooner you can get diagnosed and out of the spiral of self-hatred (for being lazy, not listening, just generally being crap), the better. Sympathies though, my son is the same and it drives me demented. Add to the fact that I’m the same and trying to get myself and him out of the door is hellish!

Sounds like my DD. I have a very little patience for that and run our mornings like a marines training, hence no problems at all. We normally end up with some time at the end where we talk about stuff etc. but till she's dressed, her hair plaited and we are all set to go, I'm like a bloody drill sergeant and don't budge. If I did, her brain which resembles a hyperactive butterfly would carry her away to far away lands where there's no school or duties and not time. I rarely have to shout when we do this which is better than when my DH is on the morning duty because they are both like zombies in the morning and normally always late.

I would keep the ADHD inattentive/dyspraxia in the back of your mind because if she starts seriously struggling later it will be somewhere to look. If it's not causing huge issues at the moment then you're probably fine without any diagnosis, but ADHD in particular is one of the most treatable conditions. I wish I'd known about mine in my teens rather than struggling along until my thirties.

In the absence of that, the suggestions others have given are really useful. I'd also say that all of the issues you mention her struggling with would be in the executive functioning area, which is the part of development that helps us with self regulation and organisation including time management and staying on task. Whether she's just a bit behind in that particular area (everyone has different strengths after all) or whether it's actually a condition it would probably be helpful to learn a bit about executive functioning and how these traits can be supported etc.

I do remember how tempting it is to reject the idea of ADHD / Dyspraxia out of hand, especially when your child has little trouble in some areas (DD is a good reader, for example, while some Dyspraxic children struggle). OP, if you want to talk about it at any point in the future, please DM me

It is possible to have problems with executive function without having a diagnosis of any kind. Tick lists and other organisational tools (timers, diaries, timetables) can all be useful to help improve executive function skills.

In my class of 30 8/9 year olds. I would say there are around 4 or 5 children like your dd. They kind of get away with it at school to a degree because their peers carry them, so if they're ditzying around during clearing up time, chances are, someone else will have done it for them. I step in if I see it, but you're going to see it much more at home.
I suppose my point is, you're not alone!