9 year old entirely unable to get herself ready

[shitholiday2018]

My daughter is bright, sociable, articulate, lovely. She’s great company too. However she’s driving me mental. She is completely unable to get herself ready in the mornings. It drives me mad and, after numerous reminders, cajoling, encouragement, I end up shouting. This actually slows her down but I can’t help it as it seems so deliberate, yet it’s not. She’s not being disobedient, she just seems unable to stay on message.

I need to get to work after drop off so I can’t do the whole ‘we’ll Just be late and you explain it’ thing. Her sister is two years younger and gets herself ready on her own, even doing her own hair and feeding the animals. So there is contrast which doesn’t go in her favour.

You tell her to do a job and she either does 20 per cent and gets distracted or does none at all. She goes to do her teeth and ten minutes later she’s just singing to herself in th mirror. She half heartedly brushes her hair but actually gets nowhere. She doesn’t wash her face. She forgets her socks. She can’t find her shoes. And so on. It’s driving me insane.

I suggested a tick list this morning. She cried and said it was babyish. She wants to sort it but genuinely doesn’t know how. Cross mirnings make us all sad. Does anyone have any other suggestions? She wants to start walking to school on her own next year and I’ve said she can’t - I’ve said if I can’t trust her to do her teeth without micro management, I’m not trusting her to look carefully as she goes round the corner (no major roads, pretty safe walk). She has no road sense despite 5 years of walking to school with me prompting - look, listen etc. Unprompted she walks out without looking even now. Again, drives me wild.

What on earth can I do with her? I’m desperate for her to get more independence (apart from this issue she’s always been an old head on small shoulders, v mature in other ways bizarrely) but just can’t get her to take any responsibility for herself. At her age I was getting myself up and ready for school and taking myself there. Surely being able to get herself ready at 9 isn’t too big a demand?

Would love your wisdom pls. I hate shouting. She hates it too. I want a better solution, but I also want to get to work on time.

i'm kind of going against the advice in the thread here I feel this is your dd nature , for whatever reason its irrelevant as you say its just her world, it doesn't come easy to her, she's like my kids in that manner but have to say my teen dd is now great at being organised, she learnt that she got more sleep if she got her act together. So I suspect there will come a time she gets better but she still is very young and the person who's stressed in am is you , but I don't think adding another thing to her jobs in the form of a list is going to help you. She'll only forget to tick, or tick half way through task, or loose list, or say the teeth are done but not done well, I'd suggest I'd change two things, firstly minimise what has to be done in morning- maybe she just has too much time to faf about, she needs to have breakfast, wash face teeth , brush hair and get dressed, pick up bag and she is ready, if you want to get her to write that out so she can see herself how little she has to do, if she is doing anything else its not acceptable, unless everything is done, so if you hear piano or singing its a shout to stop unless she's washed and dressed, make sure you don't distract her yourself with the odd can you get your sisters coat etc comment. Then to assist you both I suggest however there is an evening ten minute chore list that says get uniform, socks shoes etc in a pile in x place, with my son we decided getting dressed in his room meant things went astray so he got dressed in living room from aged 8-10, check coat is hanging y place, this is the time you say tomorrow is sports, is brush, hair bands etc where it should be ? is bag ready to go, i'd stand over her every night as you do one task after another in strict order so it becomes a routine. i'd even do things like leave out cereal and bowl ready for morning. Then she is rewarded with a good girl we are ready for morning now you can play. Overtime you can ask her to do parts on her own but you go check.

Lovely advice too old - I think the night time prep is a really good idea so that morning tasks are literally the bare minimum.

She’s amazing. I’d love to inhabit her world. Mine is so stressful of my own making. Maybe the issue is my approach, and anger, not my child.

Google "visual-spatial learning style". Does this sound like your daughter? There are connections with dyslexia dyspraxia etc, and also ADHD and autism, but lots of people have this learning style without those conditions and there is no need to label. If this does ring true then there is lots of advice / suggestions online for things that might work, and some good books too.

Can you find her a “to-Do” list pad or diary or something that is very adult, maybe somewhere like Oliver Bonas or Paperchase or similar will sell that sort of thing. Just to show that grown ups use lists all the time. I work in aviation- you could tell her all about how pilots use checklists for everything they do, even things they have done lots of times before, so that they can keep the plane safe. There are probably things written about it online.

I’ve only read op so apologies if it’s been mentioned but this sounds exactly like my 9 year old son who is currently being referred for dyspraxia assessment.
Going back to read thread now.

Definitely talk to the school, girls are often over looked for ADHD diagnosis because ADHD looks different in girls than boys.

I spent my childhood being told I was lazy, disorganised, day dreamed, didn't focus, did try hard enough etc. When I got to uni I got diagnosed with dyslexia, dyspraxia and mild ADHD. A few years after that I was diagnosed with epilepsy, my day dreaming was absence seizures.

It's worth checking, being told how crap and useless you are all the time when you are doing your best does a number on your confidence long term.

Jessie - I use one of these for work! She loves it. It’s massive. She doesn’t need anything so big but I can use it as an example of how adults use lists (not sure how the penny didn’t drop on this before)

If DD is a high achiever, the school is unlikely to have noticed issues as they won’t be worried about her. A teacher may sometimes think DD is a daydreamer, but won’t see it as an issue if DD is achieving well above her peers.

Plus she has you helping her get ready on time and getting homework done - so you’ve effectively masked it.

Tick lists are the way to go. Has to be stuck on a wall, suggest one in her bedroom and one in kitchen. Also print up a timetable of what she needs to get ready/pack each day and go through it with her.

Eventually habits will sink in. You could walking to school a reward - if she follows tick lists and is ready to leave the house by x time each day by the end of May/June/whenever, then she can walk.

Haven't read through the whole thread yet - only got a few posts in. Like others I would also be looking towards dyspraxia if there are other things also. I am dyspraxic, as is my eldest daughter - as a child I would be the same as yours (even now as an adult I need lists to tell me what to do, even down to shower, brush teeth, get dressed) and my eldest needs that guidance the same (she also has ASD)

Tdbo - that’s a great idea. I was thinking by way of reward a Nintendo switch (after a consistent period of time) but walking to school is much more in keeping with the message and rewards independence with more independence. Thank you.

Have you got an Alexa or similar, you can set timers, reminders etc direct to her if she has one in her room or upstairs. I use it in the holidays with my kids I e. Empty dishwasher, clear wrappers/mess 30 mins before we get home.... Works a treat

I have dyspraxia and so does dd it has a major impact on how we organise things. Check lists etc don't work for dd everything got better once I removed myself from her morning routine completely. We have Phillips hue light bulbs. Her bedroom light goes on when it's time to get ready for the day. She uses an electric toothbrush as she struggles with coordination so all she has to do is move it around her mouth and it does all the hard work, it also buzzes three times after two minutes so she knows she's done. We hang up her uniform the night before. Everything including pants and bra goes on the hanger and socks in her shoes underneath. She gets dress and then comes to me and I check her over and fix anything that needs fixing. You say you don't want to label her but how can you help if you don't know what your dealing with. You sound resentful of her behaviour and think she is being defiant. But when I read she stares into space I wonder about problems around focusing, forgetfulness and problems planning make me wonder about dyspraxia. Wouldn't the label "dyspraxia" for example be more favourable than the label "defiant".

There's a book that may be of interest to a few on this thread including the OP!
It's called Smart but Scattered by Dawson & Guare. It is all about helping to learn to organise themselves, stay on task etc. Interestingly it also asks you to look at how you do stuff and the stresses that the differences or similarities in your approaches can bring.

She sounds exactly like my daughter. She was diagnosed with ADHD last year.

Re talking to school: you'll need a VERY enlightened SENCO to take you seriously. If you daughter is high-achieving and not a trouble maker, then most SENCOs won't have the time to even consider her. I had the same problem, exceptionally bright child and generally well behaved, so they hadn;t identified any issues and were resistant to me asking them to look into it.

Now she's diagnosed and medicated they all think it's amazing how different she is, how her work has improved, how she can keep her focus etc etc.

Tick lists do bugger all for my daughter, BTW. She finds them pressurising and upsetting before her meds have kicked in. The only thing that works for us is huge amounts of pre-prep, so almost everything ready the night before, not sweating the small stuff (does it matter if her breakfast is eaten while faffing around doing something else? answer: nope!) and a set-in-stone bedtime routine and bedtime.

DS (8) is in the early stages of investigation for various kinds of neuro-divergence including ADHD. He's always struggled with getting ready to the point where I'm still brushing his teeth- that's our toughest task as he's very sensory and he struggles with the sensation on top of the co-ordination.

Our current routine is that to earn some time on the tablet, he must dress himself to his socks. He can then have "tech" until I call him for breakfast. Toothbrushing is done downstairs, so all going well, there should be no reason to go back up. Reading is downstairs so the books and bags are down here. It has made mornings a little less fraught than they were. A year ago, I was practically banging my head against the walls that DS had so little self-care skill compared to his younger brother. I've changed my expectations about what he needs to do for himself and what I will do for him, and it's better for my peace of mind at least.

I do increasingly wonder if I have ADHD. Again, did well at school because it was interesting... but I did struggle with homework, deadlines and putting pen to paper. I could revise all day for exams because I was motivated and I enjoyed my subjects, but if I used something like the 45 minute system, it would have taken me half the day to refocus. I automatically seem to bring chaos to my surroundings. I really struggle finishing things off... DH knows if I've vacuummed because the vacuum will still be standing around plugged into the wall. I seem to end up with random blind spots, and have my own sense of a logical order that defies most peoples'. Time keeping is arduous to me, and I find it difficult to transition from one thing to another; I'll want a break, then it's difficult to crank back up into action.

With DS, he is who he is. If he is identified with any conditions, that doesn't change him, but it does give us all understanding of why some things are disproportinately difficult and will develop in their own time, and help identify alternative methods to manage life where conventional methods don't work.

It may well be that her organisational skills are just slow to develop. There are so many "basic" or "automatic" things that we take the learning process for granted. Longer term if she still struggles with aspects of concentration and organisation, it would be worth considering investigating, especially if she frustrates herself with it.

Thanks pasha - I’ll download it. Is it too adult for a 9 year old or could she read it herself?

Mumunder - I have specifically said she’s not being defiant. I’ve also pointed out that perhaps it’s my approach that isn’t helpful. Generally, for low level stuff like this where parents and Colin strategies can work wonders, I’m not keen on diagnoses. There are too many. We are all on a spectrum aren’t we? I’m happy to try the suggestions here and, frankly, wind my neck in a bit and stop shouting at her.

Coping strategies. Not that Colin isn’t great.

Buy a book of colour by numbers or mosaic stickers. If she is completly ready with 10 minutes to spare then she can do one colour. Once the picture is complete (has to be completed within maybe a fortnight) she gets a reward.
This is more age appropriate than a sticker chart and also offers immediate gratification for being ready on time.

My ds was like this until he was allowed to watch TV but only if he was fully ready to get out of the door (literally- shoes, coat, bag and bike helmet on while sitting on sofa!) Miraculously he is now extremely fast and extremely organised

My dd was similar. Despite doing the same thing every morning before school she was just not capable of getting on with it unless I prompted her.
I did a checklist she could follow each morning. She loved it and it worked.

Trust me, it has taken me a lot of had work to get to this point lol. My Mum was a yeller (and worse but that's not for this thread )so my natural fall back was to yell and get angry with my DD, fortunately (fortunately because it meant I had to try other methods) it didn't work, yelling made it worse, getting annoyed got me nowhere except to end up with us both wound up.

Now I have learned to be calm with her our mornings are so much nicer and more efficient, helping her with things while asking her to pick up the slack in other areas to compensate for the time I spend helping with her (like asking her to put on her little brothers socks or clear the bowls from breakfast) gets the job done far easier than me telling her 300 times to put her sock on only to find her in her room wearing half a top and her undies.... and no socks hah.

Can MN stop immediately jump in and label kids with conditions. This girl just sounds like a daydreamer, she's 9, singing is more important than teeth to her.
A routine will help her and definitely go with a chart/tick list; if she moans it's babyish tell her it's not forever if she can be a big girl.

How about challenging her to beat you? May be a bit babyish but works with my nearly 9 year old. So saying I'm going to get dressed, lets see who can be done first?

Or maybe go for an instant reward for whichever children manage to get ready in a set amount of time? Use a tick list of jobs that need to be done and offer say ten minutes of tv/ipad or some other coveted reward. Her sister will likely be ready quick enough so allow her the reward which should encourage your older daughter to follow suit. It may take a few days before she realises her sister is getting a treat everyday and she isn't.

Let us know how it goes pls op. Good luck!

OP, with the tick list, I would make sure she knows you have 'heard' her concerns about it being babyish- a very big deal at that age. That way she'll immediately know you're onside and both working as a team to get more efficient like adults, at this rather than her feeling 'got at'.

Maybe don't call it a "chart" as that does sound like what you used with her when she was little. Maybe a simple "to-do" list in the same way as an adult.

Also the timer thing the pp posted- could that also be a bit babyish? Pp said her child was 4. Can she set her own timer using iPad or Alexa if you have one?

Good luck! I think she sounds lovely and is obviously incredibly bright though it must be frustrating for you. Your description remind me of my old school
friend who was just like this growing up. Her mum used to tear her hair out at her disorganisation, but like your DD she was incredibly bright and a really keen reader. She went on to go to Oxford and get her phd. She is still very disorganised in her personal life but it's part of who she is! X