to not want traditional fairy tales used in DD's class

[Blankiefan]

P1 5yo DD's class are doing a range of activities around Fairyland being lost. I don't hear any chat from dd about anything challenging gender norms. For example, she tells me they are making a castle for sleeping beauty this week so the handsome Prince can come and wake her up. Obviously I've discussed the consent issue with her. This seemed to be new news...

AIBU in wanting a chat with her teacher to check on the truth and encouraging some challenge... or will I be "that parent"?

FFS we all grew up with fairy tales and have managed not to go around forcing ourselves on people without consent. Lighten up!

Can anyone share the link for the thread asking for the most bonkers thread you’d read on Mumsnet because I’ve just found it

Do lots of adult women have problems with understanding consent now because nobody told them when they were 5?

Do you really not understand that teaching small children about consent (in an age-appropriate way) can help protect some children a long time before they reach adulthood?

Of course I understand.

@nopen
No we haven’t! We absolutely haven’t. Boys especially but girls too! Childhood is about learning how you’ll act as an adult. Fact. that’s what it’s for

Whatever you want to teach your child, however you want them to behave as an adult1 that’s what they are learning ! I

This might be the craziest thing Iv ever read. I think homeschooling will suit your best OP or it’s gonna be a long long long ride

Yesterday a fellow nursery teacher of mine apologised to a 4 year old, as when she went to get her some replacement socks she only had "boys " socks left. The little girl went to her mum at the end of the day and said "I have to wear boys socks" and nearly cried, and her mum said "don't worry, you can get some girls socks on when we get home"....little drops of stereotyping that filter down, to where by year 1 (5 year olds) boys answer questions more loudly than girls; the majority of girls give way to boys' louder expressed opinions; in PE girls wont attempt to get a ball off a boy, even though she is bigger than him. Girls are praised for looking beautiful and pretty and sitting quietly. Boys are praised for being brave and strong, and clever. I see it every day. Drip drip drip.
So I'm with you, OP...on the consent issue, but also the making a bed for the princess thing. Suggest they also read Zog, to show what princesses nowadays get upto? All the people saying "She's 5"..exactly! There's still time!

I love fairytales but absolutely discuss consent alongside them, even with our 3 year old - though in a light hearted and age appropriate way.

These stories were designed to be powerful teaching tools, and in the age of #metoo how does it help my sons to present them with images of male heroes who save the day by kissing unconscious women? How is it "the transformative power of love", as a pp said, if they've never met?

good god.its a fairytale.YOU will be making her have issues.girls dont grow up thinking they will prick themselve son a machine and fall to sleep.nor a knight battle a dragon for them.or be a mermaid in the sea who falls in love with a man and loses her voice for him.BECSUE PEOPLE DONT MAKE A BI DEAL OVER THEM OR PUT THIS FOCUS ONTO THEM.there is no link.its strories.they shouldnt be linking this as issue based.a story is a story is a story.
yes when we are older and thinking of these themes we can look how stories are told and give some comparison or use as metaphors. but at that age.she doesnt need to think of a link like that.
allow her to be rescued.
allow her to fight back like in frozen.
or show compassion for animals like snow white.
fall in love with a green men like in shrek
have candles and tea cups as friends like in beauty and the beast.
let her be.
seperate to that should be about safety etc.

Traditional tales are part of our culture and heritage. They should be celebrated and perpetuated for what they are, and children allowed to enjoy them and appreciate them for their wickedness, their ghoulishness, their whimsicalness and their predictability which helps children build their literacy skills much better than many modern tales. Of course, they should be enjoyed alongside other types of literature, and when they are able to children should be encouraged to challenge stereotypes and analyse the tales. We certainly shouldn't be sanitising the images we feed our children though- their experiences should be allowed to be diverse and enabling children to question what they believe to be right and wrong. And let them hear the proper versions too- full of gory endings and justice! SOOOO much more fun than living happily ever after! Let the pigs be eaten up!

Jings. If you go into school about this you will That Parent With Knobs On.

I’m assuming you only have the one DC at the moment?

Seriously, carry on like this and you will be completely exhausted by the end of year 6.

How dare you refer to your dd as 'her' or 'she', OP. Who do you think you are?

Stop imposing your outdated and oppressive gender belief system on your dd.

ha ha no.

Do people think we have a culture where consent is understood fully, or do we have a culture where a significant proportion of women have suffered sexual assault? (oh and a high court judge says he thinks a mans right to sex with his wife is fundamental)

Do people think we have a culture where people are perfectly free to pursue their own paths, boys never get teased for being into ballet and rates of girls taking STEM A-level match those of boys?

Do people genuinely thing there is no link between societal problems and what children are taught at school in their most crucial formative years?

Did nobody see the BBC documentary that went through all the books in a primary school library pointing out all the sexism, racism and stereotyping and suggesting it might not be that strange given the teaching material that kids as young as 3 can tell you all about which jobs are for boys and which for girls?

There is no reason to teach historic stories to 5 yo full of sexism and stereotyping, only to then have to try and explain...well yes we did teach you that last week, but now we are doing PE and you aren't supposed to assume the girls are all physically useless and not pick any for your team...

I think we should try not giving out massive sexist messages in primary schools and maybe just maybe that will help our society become less sexist in the future.

It makes one wonder how any of us got to be feminists, if being read a fairy tale at five is so damaging.
I grew up on fairy tales. My daughters (31and 32) grew up on Disney princesses, yet we're all feminists and totally understand consent. Without anyone having preached at us and sucked the fun out of the story/movie.

The safety issue is of course also valid.

'Ohh look its so wonderful to be woken by your prince with a kiss awwwww...who wouldn't want to be that princess!'

10 years later

'What do you mean your creepy uncle used to sneak in your bedroom when you were asleep and kiss you? How could you not realise how wrong that is! Why didn't you tell me??????

I agree with you about the sexist messaging and the engrained stereotyping that starts with fairytales but if you're viewing fairytales through that lense, I think it's only fair to also note the value of them eg culturally, socially, historically, the oral tradition of storytelling etc. Let your DD enjoy participating in class. Don't be that parent to the teacher.
Meanwhile, at home, you can ensure your DD receives more rounded messages. I agree with all the PPs who have recommended the Paperbag Princess.I buy it for all my friends' children (boys and girls). It's fab.

It's part of their cultural heritage. Fairytales are universal, whether they of princesses being rescued, cheeky trickster foxes, predatory wolves or intelligent spiders.

What do they learn from Snow White? Jealousy and not trust anybody offering them food.
Hansel and Gretel? even parents can be unkind and never go into a stranger's house even if they offer sweeties.
Red Riding Hood - don't talk to strangers.
The three little pigs - learn civil engineering, don't piss off predators and always have a plan.
Three Billy Goats Gruff - watch for danger. Don't go alone unless you're the biggest, toughest adult.
Sleeping Beauty - if you're told not to do something, there could be a good reason for it. And always wear eye protection whilst gardening.
Rapunzel- don't climb over next door's fence to nick stuff from it. And that horny teenagers will always find a way to get a boyfriend.
Pied Piper of Hamelin. Don't try to scam somebody once they've done the job as agreed as per the terms of the contract.

Etc.

You can do the same with stories of Ananzi, Brer Rabbit, Cu Cuchlainn, the BeanSidhe, Kelpie, Knockers, Piskies and any other set of tales. They miss out on so much with electronic entertainment - give them the cultural background they deserve.

sara most of us make it most of the way out of the fog.

But almost all are still effected in all sorts of minor ways. Where I work, women are significantly less likely to ask for a raise than men. We internalise a different level of passivity to men on average....and its at least in part due to being constantly exposed to the message that this is what women do, during childhood.

Slavery, systematic rape, exclusion from education, and labelling as witches are all part of our cultural heritage as women.

It can all get to fuck as far as I'm concerned.

I'm pretty sure the art of story telling can be conveyed using non-misogynistic source material, so how about we try that instead?

I mean would you send your boy to school where all the stories at story time painted boys as useless, ornamental, passive and in need of rescuing?

I think the main message of Sleeping Beauty would be don’t annoy the evil fairy by not inviting her the the christening.

"Maybe the letter to Santa includes formal consent to enter the premises."

I'm sure OP has banned Santa for not following GDPR rules. Imagine knowing the address of every child in the world.

What a sad post, It's a fairy story. You are really over thinking this, I only hope your daughter is not as intense as you about things.
Be careful as you could become the Mother everyone avoids.please keep that opinion to yourself, and loosen up, let your daughter enjoy it and don't take away the magic away, let her have a childhood without all the preachy serious stuff.

DD1 loved all the fairy tale sexist stuff at that age. Got a scholarship to a public school (I was a single parent of three DC and very poor), straight A student, went to Oxford, now a lawyer representing women's rights.

Listening to fairy tales didn't affect her🙄

oh and a high court judge says he thinks a mans right to sex with his wife is fundamental

Small point, and I hate to ruin the tabloid reading of that case but that was actually in reference to whether the state should be quick to interfere in whether people can have sex with their partners if they want to, and NOT with respect to the right to consent of either party. In a world where this line of reasoning was used a lot in court cases it could be applied to anyone of either sex with a spouse, it was not a reinstatement of the "you can't rape your wife" principle and it's actually quite defamatory to claim it was.