To share with you the reasons victims of rape should not share the contents of their phone with the police?

[Destinysdaughter]

This blog post starts with the simple line, because it’s victim blaming. To me, this is so clear and so beautifully written, from a woman who was worked with victims of sexual violence for ten years. So she knows what she’s talking about. I urge you to read this and think about it. To me, it will put women off reporting rape even more than they already do and is just taking things in the wrong direction.

I’m certainly happy to stand by Queen’s post!

Yes I find it extraordinary how many people claim to know someone who was definitely falsely accused given that the stats show that proven false accusations are very rare.

And innocent until proven guilty works both ways but a lot of people like to ignore that.

@CuriousaboutSamphire because the way our society works is that it is worse to have 1 innocent person in jail then to make sure each and every person that is a criminal is in jail even if the prove is not enough.

Yes, veven if we assume half of all rape accusations are false (which seems high) its still less than a 4% conviction rate. That's the highest it could possibly be imo.

Not really. It's just an example of self selection. The 2 main cohorts reading any post will be those who agree and those who disagree.

I disagree in part because of my experiences. I tend to post those incidences on any thread that questions the reality of false accusations. I can imagine other posters do the same.

So it is almost inevitable rather than extraordinary, that such threads will have the replies you and Queen find unreliable!

Please don't make the mistake of thinking I am in anyway happy with how rape cases are comported. My first repsonse to this thread should show that!

I just cannot get on board with #Ibelieveyou or the idea that false accusations are as rare as hen's teeth! That is down to my own experience.

Moonchild I thought that, just as we don't have the death penalty in case 1 innocent person is killed.

But what has gone before is nothing to do with laws moving with the times. In this case trying to catch up with social media and smart phones. As I said at the beginning, I doubt this will go away. It may be best to campaign for more robust procedures than to decry it competely!

@StealthPolarBear cases where neither side should be disregarded as there is no way to prove to get the actual statistics. Only accurate picture is to compare the successful convictions and false allegations

I disagree in part because of my experiences. I tend to post those incidences on any thread that questions the reality of false accusations. I can imagine other posters do the same.

Yet more often than not when you probe these posters about how they know the accusation was false you will often get very vague answers, such as how he was a nice guy who would never do that or he wasn't convicted (because obviously our justice system is perfect and all criminals are always deal with ) or because she didn't act the way a rape victim should .

@QueenOfTheTofuTree or you will find it's because they keep changing their story, keep changing people and dates, that any physical evidence contradicts them, or they have no prove of their claims

Actually, @curiousaboutsanphire, only one of your examples had any evidence- the other two are pretty meaningless. One because there is a possibility that it was a group backing each other up (it happens) and the other because you were too young to know the rights and wrongs of the situation.

Queen probe away. I explained how I know what I know, why all 3 of my examples are of false accusations! Why do you assume others may not also have absolute proof of the same?

I do note that you chose to focus on the one that I was slightly different. The other 2 were such cast iron examples of false and malicious accusations....

@Moonchild1987

You do realise it's perfectly normal to be confused about sequences of events when you're in shock after a traumatic incident, don't you? And that's not even getting into how humans are flawed and don't have picture perfect memories anyway and often remember things differently to how they happened even without the stress and trauma of having your body violated thrown in.

@BertrandRussell

It just seems that men being falsely accused is more important than men being falsely cleared.....

Sorry if it seems I'm picking on you or your points, that's not my intention, but once again this is subjective bias. If you consider that a criminal case (in all criminal cases) it has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt then that is of course a logical conclusion. The onus should be on the accuser to prove the case rather than the defendant disprove it, it's a fundamental cornerstone of our justice system.

Remove what the crime is (delete Rape, insert Murder, Theft, Manslaughter whatever, anything likely to be a Criminal case) and read your point out again.

A person is accused of murder... It just seems that someone being falsely accused of murder is more important than someone being falsely cleared...

Now we've done the substitution test, does that seem reasonable to you, or would you prefer to bang everyone up who is accused of murder?

It's not about probability, it's about beyond all reasonable doubt, and it's a cornerstone of our Justice system.

only one of your examples had any evidence- the other two are pretty meaningless. Not really! 2 had evidence and the 3rd makes the point that reputations can be ruined by lies and gossip! Which sort of supports the need for this new law! (but absolutely not the accompanying threat of "or we may not take your case forward")

One because there is a possibility that it was a group backing each other up (it happens) Yes! I said that in my post. The police thought much the same. Months later, after all involved had given their statements, many unknown to others, living hundreds of miles away from the pub or the woman, CCTV etc etc, it became obvious that the complaint was false. But that man, and his colleagues, still live under the cloud... and are formally reminded of it regularly!

The gossip one was, as I said, just gossip. Even after the truth was out, the shit stirring continued. Nasty minded shite that lost a man his career. God only knows the effect it had on his sister!

It does happen. It may not be as extraordinary as Queen thinks (the point of my having posted about it in the first place) And is why #Ibelieveyou is well meaning but inherently flawed.

@QueenOfTheTofuTree ok so we just take any victims word for it. Who cares about evidence bring on yhe witch trials and throw people in prison for their gender or we did not like the way they looked like

Why do you assume others may not also have absolute proof of the same?

Because if they had proof and really knew for a fact the accusations were false they would say what that proof was. Instead they dodge around the question and give vague answers like the ones I just mentioned.

I've lost count of the number of headlines I've read over the years about a 'false rape accusation' only to read the story and realise there was actually no proof the accusation was false. Generally all that's happened is that the alleged victim withdrew her claim or he was acquitted and then it has automatically been slapped with the 'false accusation' label as a result.

ok so we just take any victims word for it. Who cares about evidence bring on yhe witch trials and throw people in prison for their gender or we did not like the way they looked like

Are you actually reading any of my posts?

Not once have I claimed we should just take the alleged victims word for it and that we should simply throw people in jail simply based on a woman's word alone.

Oh! They OK!

You're back at the whataboutery!

Can you not even acknowledge that I gave you 3 good examples and absolute proof of false accusation? That makes it far less extraordinary....

You on the other hand @Moonchild1987 seem happy to condemn a woman simply because she doesn't have a computer chip for a brain who can always recall incidents 100% accurately...

Can you not even acknowledge that I gave you 3 good examples and absolute proof of false accusation?

No because at least one of them wasn't.

There have been enough instances where women have either been coerced into saying they lied (and to withdraw charges) or refused to "admit" they were lying so were accused if this by police and sometimes even charged for making a false complaint...that I don't trust "rape lie" stats.

www.nytimes.com/2017/11/24/opinion/sunday/sexual-assault-victims-lying.html

Which one.

Am I believed because I am posting here yet my DH is not because he is nor, or is a man?

Is the last not an accusation that ruined a man's life, just words, no evidence, a slightly different take on it. All of them had police involvement, all of them were reported as sex crimes. All of them were based on false accusations....

Or are you going to hang on to taht last one, let it override the forst 2, to suit your own narrative?

You on the other hand @Moonchild1987 seem happy to condemn a woman simply because she doesn't have a computer chip for a brain who can always recall incidents 100% accurately Show me where moonchild said anything like that... you seem to have cherry picked one part of a whole sentence....

Which one.

You know which one.

I don't trust "rape lie" stats.

I doubt anyone would, for the reasons you gave and many others.

But, going back to the OP, there has to be changes to the law, the procedures around rape charges or more and more men will simply use stupid, insulting defences and continue to walk away . I still cannot believe that "I fell on her" was accepted in a court of law! That and other such idiocies cannot continue.

You know which one.

It's behiiiiiiiind you