To share with you the reasons victims of rape should not share the contents of their phone with the police?

[Destinysdaughter]

This blog post starts with the simple line, because it’s victim blaming. To me, this is so clear and so beautifully written, from a woman who was worked with victims of sexual violence for ten years. So she knows what she’s talking about. I urge you to read this and think about it. To me, it will put women off reporting rape even more than they already do and is just taking things in the wrong direction.

What happened to Lindsay was utterly dreadful and thankfully it has never been allowed to happen in a court in Scotland since.

Collaborate that is exactly what did happen. And I agree the police and judiciary should be on no-one's 'side'. Yet if you look at the treatment of alleged victims in some recent high profile rape cases, you might be forgiven for thinking they were in fact, on a particular 'side'.

@Wynturphelle

I'd imagine in that scenario the man would show his copy of the text to his lawyers anyway, even if she didn't give up her phone to be examined.

Victims are not 'refusing to hand over their phones for download'.
What is actually happening is that the police are confiscating all phones and mobile devices for an unlimited amount of time, because they are so strapped for cash they dont have time to download or analyse all the data.

For women on Universal Credit, having their phone confiscated is is a disaster that can lead them into debt.

Remember Katrina O'Hara, who had her phone confiscated for 'making false allegations' and was unable to call for help when her stalker killed her.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/domestic-abuse-police-katrina-ohara-failings-dorset-phone-taken-attacker-stuart-thomas-stalking-a8148726.html

I was sexually assaulted walking home and reported to police - during interview I was asked if I was drunk ( I wasn't) I was asked how short my short was and how much cleavage I had on show ( I was wearing a coat) ... I was given the reassurance e it was probably a opportunist rather than a serial rapist (!)

Forward ten years and a man pulled over by me and mum walking along the road during the daytime and started wanking in his van. ( he slowed down and then pulled up in front of us) I thought he was going to ask directions so unfortunately looked at window and got a good view. Reported to police with van reg and it went to court - during questions from defence they brought up I was sexually assaulted when I was younger and if this was affecting my memory of the day(?!) not sure why it had relevance but luckily they were prosecuted and hopefully it has nipped their behaviour in the bud before they went onto any further indecent sexual behaviour- assault.

I did leave the court in tears though as I felt very stressed by it.

@BertrandRussell

And to “investigate” the character, background and sex life of the victim.

Thank you for the excellent example of how the average human conflates subjective and objective in order to confirm their own subconscious bias.

The process of reporting a rape is pretty sole destroying, as a victim I don’t think this will make it any worse tbh, I can see both sides as many men are accused of rape when they are incident and they deserve the chance to get their name cleared, being accused of rape can ruins someone’s life almost as much as being raped.

I went through the process 2 years ago, the interviewing from the police, being made to feel it was my fault because of what I was or wasn’t wearing, being made to feel I was lying because I wanted revenge. His phone was taken from him and I would have been fine about having my phone checked too, I had nothing to hide.

FCF-

I’m actually extrapolating from a significant body of data. What are you using to support your premise?

“being accused of rape can ruins someone’s life almost as much as being raped.”
Hmm. I haven’t actually seen much evidence of this. And “many men” falsely accused? Could we have evidence of this too?

*many men are accused of rape when they are incidents

Source?

And would all that info be made available to the defence?

No - only evidence that assists the prosecution or the defence is disclosed.

No thats what should happen; what actually happens is the victims entire life is used to discredit her testimony.

"Alsohuman the difficulty is, in situations where the victim is clearly clearly telling the truth, the rapists are not convicted. As in the Ulster rugby case"

That's libel Margotshypotheticaldog

You should be more careful when tossing around your opinions as fact - it could come back and bite you in a very costly manner

ODFOD.

@loughers
#Sosume

No - only evidence that assists the prosecution or the defence is disclosed.

So if a woman sent a man naked photos before meeting him, and a week later she reported that he raped her, would the photos assist the defence?

“No - only evidence that assists the prosecution or the defence is disclosed.”
Ah. Like the fact that she had been “flirty” with him? Or had had one night stands? Or liked sexy underwear? Or told a friend she found him attractive?

So if a woman sent a man naked photos before meeting him, and a week later she reported that he raped her, would the photos assist the defence? It would depend on the facts of the case.

No thats what should happen; what actually happens is the victims entire life is used to discredit her testimony.

This, exactly this.

Ah. Like the fact that she had been “flirty” with him? Or had had one night stands? Or liked sexy underwear? Or told a friend she found him attractive? Again, that would depend on the facts of the case. If a complainant alleged that she had shown no interest in the accessed, yet there was evidence to say she had flirted with him, would you not think that relevant? It depends on whether the evidence sought to be admitted is relevant. Unless you've sat in on rape cases in court you can't possibly know the reasons for evidence either being admitted or refused. I have to say that I cannot see the type of underwear worn by the complainant could ever be relevant.

I don’t ask about underwear particularly, it’s not relevant to me what it looks like.

I only ask about it in detail if it is missing and we need to find it in a suspects house, for example. None of us ask about previous sexual encounters although if the offence has happened within the forensic window then I will ask when she did last have a sexual encounter.

@BertrandRussell

I’m actually extrapolating from a significant body of data. What are you using to support your premise?

Show me your sources.

Objectivity is by definition free from bias, but as for what I am using to support my prmiese, google is free > www.google.co.uk/search?q=unconcious+bias+conflating+objective+and+subjective&oq=unconcious+bias+conflating+objective+and+subjective&aqs=chrome..69i57.13034j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

pants

Why don't they take the accused's phone?
I said this before but I would certainly "accidentally" drop my phone down the bog rather than hand it over to police.

This rule is absolutely going to be used to. discredit victims, and also to discourage reporting. And if you don't comply..well then you must have something to hide, right?
And even if a woman flirts with a man, or hooks up with a different man every night, that doesn't mean it's not possible to rape her. "Character" in this case means "purity" let's not pretend otherwise. The Man will do whatever it takes to stop female sexual freedom-always have, always will.

(That Tracey Ullman clip is great whoever posted that btw)

What about a situation where a woman has been seeing a guy, they've been having a relationship, her texts suggest she's going to his home and planning to have sex, she gets there and there's a row, things turn nasty and he rapes her? Unless she's been visibly injured (and even then men try to use the bdsm defence) I don't see how you could get a conviction - a defence would have a field day making out that it was a consensual act