To share with you the reasons victims of rape should not share the contents of their phone with the police?

[Destinysdaughter]

This blog post starts with the simple line, because it’s victim blaming. To me, this is so clear and so beautifully written, from a woman who was worked with victims of sexual violence for ten years. So she knows what she’s talking about. I urge you to read this and think about it. To me, it will put women off reporting rape even more than they already do and is just taking things in the wrong direction.

We take the phone of every rape suspect. But sometimes they have “lost” it.

I will ask again, have posters read Collaborate’s linked articles?

I was a solo for a woman who went to a guys house for sex and then changed her mind.

Went to court, unfortunately got a Not Proven for reasons that I don’t know, but her intention for sex certainly wasn’t an issue for the police.

This worries me and I agree with the blog.

When my rape case went to trial, the fact that I’d called my ex boyfriend the day after was used as a reason for me ‘making it up’. Clearly I thought he’d be so sympathetic to what happened we’d get back together. I don’t recall being given a choice to hand over my phone by the way.

I was also asked why i had dyed my hair brown from blonde and why I’d gained weight as this apparently shows I was trying to make myself ‘less attractive’.

Women that have been raped are routinely humiliated in court.

Also - the fact I’d had sex before was enough to call me a liar. The fact that I had boobs was enough. The fact that I’d drunk a few cocktails was enough.

This seems just like another reason to shore up the man’s account than to prove otherwise.

Thing is, the Liam Allen case would've been closed very quickly if the police had bothered checking what he'd said and I bet he would've happily handed his phone.

Or if it was standard policy like in Nicknacky's case.

So there's no need for all victims to hand over their phones, just that occasionally it might be relevant. It would also save a lot of police time as IIRC it's really time consuming to process footage etc.

I always find it amazing how many people claim to know men who they know were definitely falsely accused. It really is extraordinary.

Oh and consent can be withdrawn at any time. So messages could show that the two parties had sex previously or they had arranged to meet for sex but that doesn't mean he couldn't have raped her. People are allowed to change their minds.

There is also a huge difference between a case collapsing for whatever reason and a proven false accusation but so many people act like they're the same thing.

I always find it amazing how many people claim to know men who they know were definitely falsely accused. It really is extraordinary. Really?

Let me see how extraordinary!

Man 1: administrtor in a school walking down a corridor woth files in his hands. 3 girls stood across the corridor. Man says "Excuse me" Girls don't respond. Man repeats "Excsue me" Girls look at him and move slightly. Man walks past them.

A week later he is out on garden leave, they have made a serious accusation, hetouched them sexually. Long story short, he was hounded out of his job 6 months before retirement and would have lost a significant chunk of benefits, pension etc. It took 4 years of legal action to undo the damage they did. They actually bragged about 'taking him down' on facebook! I was witness to the incident and the one who found their facebook bragging - neither the school or the police had found it!

Man 2 A colleague of DHs. Working away and got a visit on site from 2 policemen who were very clear and loud that they were arresting him on suspicion of a sex crime. Months later he was told who was making the accusation and could finally start to properly refute it. That is months later he was given more detail than "on a day between X and Y" Turned out to be a woman in a bar who had a precarious past felt he had snubbed her and would make him pay. DH and 4 other colleagues were witnesses, as were the landlord and bar staff - all males and so were not immediately believed, old boys club and all that! DH and his colleagues still get warned to behave themselves, they are in their 50s and 60s and their female boss believes this is a reasonable caution for her to give... once a month or so!

Man 3 More anecdotal as I was too young to know the details. A teacher left school suddenly. Rumours were he had 'a young girl pregnant' After police were called and school was involved he was hounded out by parents and gossip.. Turned out the girl was his sister and he was housng her as their father had thrown her out! But the local grapevine wasn't having that.

So yes. I do think it is more prevalent than some might think. It really isn't helpful to hold the 'truth' that women do not lie about rape. Women are human and some of them lie and are quite vile in their attitudes and behaviours.

I wouldn’t have a problem jab dong over my phone.

And if it was my son being accused, I’d want her phone examined too.

Jab dong - handing 🙄

That did make my eyes widen Oohgossip

Nobody has said that women don't ever lie🙄.

And that third example has bigger all to do with lying women.

Bigger? Apparently my phone doesn't like swearing.

I meant bugger

I just want to relate a situation in which a complainant's sexual history may become relevant.

Let's assume (as is often the case) that the issue is one of consent. The defence counsel puts it to the accused that she consented to a particular sexual act. She says she didn't, but goes further than that and says it is not something she enjoys doing consensually.

Let's assume that the defence counsel knows there is evidence that the complainant has enjoyed doing this with sexual partners. This evidence shows that she has lied - not in saying she was raped, but in explaining why the jury should believe her when she says she was raped.

Does anyone not think that to be relevant?

Twas women doing the gosspiping,. A woman who reported him to the police.

Nobody has said that women don't ever lie No but you find it extraordinary that some posters know men who have been falsely accused - all 3 of my examples were! And I am in no way extraordinary!

extraordinary

adjective
1. very unusual or remarkable.

synonyms: remarkable, exceptional, amazing, astonishing, astounding, marvellous, wonderful, sensational, stunning, incredible, unbelievable, miraculous, phenomenal, prodigious, spectacular

So what did you mean by it?

@QueenOfTheTofuTree then why are we supposed to just believe the woman when it is a case of he said she said. Phones could have vital evidence

@curiousaboutsamphire what a Freudian slip 😂

“Let's assume that the defence counsel knows there is evidence that the complainant has enjoyed doing this with sexual partners. This evidence shows that she has lied - not in saying she was raped, but in explaining why the jury should believe her when she says she was raped.

Does anyone not think that to be relevant?”

What if she lied about enjoying it before? What if she enjoyed it with one man and not with another?

Read my post again.

I quite clearly said I find it amazing how many people claim to know men who were definitely falsely accused.

That is not the same thing as saying that no women lie ever or even that I find it amazing that some people might know someone who was falsely accused.

Am I typing too fast for you?

I don’t think anyone says women don’t lie. Of course they do. It just seems that men being falsely accused is more important than men being falsely cleared.....

You could at least have the courage to stand by your post. No amount of slight obfuscation will prevent that last line from being there

It really is extraordinary.

And were those gossiping women being purposefully malicious? Or were they making assumptions and jumping to conclusions? If it's the latter it's still not pleasant but there is a huge difference between that and being malicious.

Was the woman who reported him part of the gossipers or an outsider? That also makes a difference imo.

And what if the gossip had been correct but nobody reported him for fear of ruining his life? I guarantee that people would be asking why nobody had bothered to report him. At the end of the day people are not mind readers.

It just seems that men being falsely accused is more important than men being falsely cleared.....

THAT is something that is self emminent from the speed in which laws are changed, the number of laws that are ignored, as I said in my first repsonse on this thread.

Please Queen don't start with the whataboutery! It has bugger all to do wioth the thread...

... then again, maybe it is the very heart of it!

Yes, it is extarordinary. Obviously it happens-but for so many people on every thread on the subject to know men who have definitely been falsely accused is extraordinary.