To share with you the reasons victims of rape should not share the contents of their phone with the police?

[Destinysdaughter]

This blog post starts with the simple line, because it’s victim blaming. To me, this is so clear and so beautifully written, from a woman who was worked with victims of sexual violence for ten years. So she knows what she’s talking about. I urge you to read this and think about it. To me, it will put women off reporting rape even more than they already do and is just taking things in the wrong direction.

What can the contents of a victims phone actually give them?

In fact, i can’t think of any text messages that would be relevant except any that are specifically saying “i had sex with Fred last night-I’m going to pretend he raped me” is going to be remotely relevant

Yep. And will they go through victims of expensive car theft for messages that say 'I'm going to sell my car on the black market and pretend it's stolen to get the insurance', etc.? I doubt it!

Yes-it seems to me that it will just fuel the already pretty common view that if you’ve said yes once, you’re signing an advance directive.......

I was raped by a creepy 30something man when I was 13. It was my first ever "sexual" experience and it really messed me up. I never told anyone about until I finally opened up to my DH all those years later just before we got married because I didn't want there to be any secrets between us. The reason I never told anyone is because I just assumed there was no point and I would get blamed, because I had been drinking. I thought it was my fault. My DH said I should report it and he would support me through it all, but agreed that I probably wouldn't be believed so he could understand why I didn't want to bother.

What a fucking world we live in, eh?

@Destinysdaughter problem with the 2% statistic is that it only holds true if we assume that even in cases that are dropped because it is impossible to prove one way or the other that the victim was 100% telling the truth and just can't prove it. The 2% is the number of times it has been proven with evidence that the alligations are false and does not include the ones that could not be proven

They are not on our side

They should be on no-one's 'side', they should be seeking the truth. Is all this faux indignation suggesting that their claims should not be investigated, that the alleged perpetrator shouldn't have the opportunity to defend himself?
If you want to blame anyone, blame the women guilty of false accusations, their reprehensible actions have made this inevitable.

Anyone supporting the narrative OP wishes to promote only serve to distort the truth and put off complainants by promoting ignorance.

I recommend that instead of listening to some of the more ill-informed fear-mongers people read what lawyers have written about this subject. For example the criminal law barrister Matthew Scott has written a piece in the Spectator about it (can be found here ), or this one here by Max Hardy. Why stop there? Have a look at what the CPS themselves say here. Forget the hysteria. Time for some calm heads, or you're doing the work of those who would prefer women not to report rape allegations.

Some people commenting on this thread seem to be ignoring the fundamental principle of English criminal law - innocent until proved guilty. Until the verdict in the eyes of the law the woman - or man - making the allegation is a complainant, not a victim, and the accused is just that - not a rapist. Even if, as said early on in this thread, only 2% of accusations are false, I would not want anybody, least of all anybody I care about, to be falsely accused and, if he were, I would want all material which could show the accusation to be false to have been properly examined.

I think it would be fine to seize phones, if we had already stamped out victim blaming within our judiciary, and indeed wider society. But while we still still live in a culture where what we wear, what we've drunk and our past sexual history can be used against us it's all too likely that the contents of our phones will be used in the same way.

@Steriodskeepingmealive I hope you're willing to prove tht in a court if Liam Allen decides to sue you for libel. Even the prosecution counsel in that case has confirmed the content of the evidence proves that she had lied.

@Dumdedumdedum Yes -the victims of other crimes do have to do that. See the notice from the CPS linked to in my posting up-thread. These forms are for all cases in which mobile phone evidence might be relevant. Or would you prefer police not to have to follow reasonable lines in inquiry?

Yes with the recent cases where men have been exonerated, ass far as I understood it it was because of phone messages showing they were having sex with the women or had been invited to etc.

That doesn't preclude rape in any way. It doesn't mean it's impossible for him to have raped her at all. But I think that's what will be used. ONLY as a PP said, the clear admission of making a false rape claim would be reasonable evidence.

@BertrandRussell

But presumably there’s nothing stopping a person using their phone as evidence now. It’s the compulsion that’s the issue.

Did you gloss over the part where I stated that generally most folk - despite watching CSI etc - don''t understand what is and isn't relevant, useful objective evidence?

To me, the compulsion is a mechanism to allow a detective to investigate the crime, in much the same way as allowing them access to the crime scene. If you refuse to hand over your phone when it could hold important evidence to either prove or disprove your case, surely that's obstructing the course of justice in the worst case, or merely making it harder to prove the crime beyond all reasonable doubt to a jury?

If the phone evidence is clear evidence that the rape accusation is false, of course that is acceptable evidence. But given the way women are still treated in court and by the justice system in regard to rape, I'd want to see a very clear statement about what kinds of evidence they would consider significant.

I can totally see this being used to discredit accusers. If wearing a pair of lacy knickers can be used as “proof” a victim wanted a specific man to drag her up a lane and rape her then they would have a field day with open access to a victims phone.

From my phone alone: Oh she’s a feminist, she follows “metoo” and “I believe her”, she commented on the Belfast rape trial and the “lacy knickers” rape trial in support of the accusers. She has made thousands of posts on MN feminism boards about rape. This woman is clearly obsessed with rape and has fabricated this event in order to fit in with her beliefs and agenda of demonising all men as rapists.”

Great link thanks.

Given the way clothing and behaviour (drinking, flirting etc) are already used to discredit rape victims I have serious concerns about how phone data would/will be used. I get that in theory it could be used to assist in prosecutions but I am dubious about the likelihood of that happening.

And 7 years? What's that about?

@ILoveMaxiBondi If wearing a pair of lacy knickers can be used as “proof” a victim wanted a specific man to drag her up a lane and rape her Wrong. You are promoting a falsehood, with the effect that fewer victims are likely to come forward.

And would all that info be made available to the defence?

Wrong

Not wrong. It’s exactly what happened.

But why is the man automatically believed over the woman if it’s a case of he said she said?

I would imagine it's the legal precedent that the accused is innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

“To me, the compulsion is a mechanism to allow a detective to investigate the crime,“

And to “investigate” the character, background and sex life of the victim.

Collaborate No, its you who are wrong.
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46207304

Lindsay Armstrong was 17 when she was cross examined so aggressively that she went home and committed suicide.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/mother-teenager-took-life-rape-trial-appalled-girls-thong-used/

Didn’t anyone read the links Collaborate posted? They don’t have free access to information on the phone, it is only information and data that is relevant to the crime in question that is disclosed.

What about coercive control and abuse? What if women were forced to text consent retrospectively?