Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Forced Parenthood AIBU?

883 replies

FP22 · 30/04/2019 16:29

First off I completely acknowledge that this will divide opinion, i may be criticised but I’m looking for genuine thoughts and feedback.

The situation is this, the beginning of last year I was casually seeing a girl. We were both of the knowledge it was casual. She told me she was on the pill and that she was allergic to condoms and never wanted kids, everything seemed fine. 3/4 months in she tells me she is pregnant and I find out she was never on the pill and that now she wants a relationship with me.

This came as quite a shock to me and I felt betrayed, used and tricked into something I never wanted and to that point I was clear about. I made it clear I wanted to have nothing to do with it now or in the future and she decided to go ahead.

Fast forward and I’m now being chased for child support and being told to take responsibility.

I consider myself a good person. I have a 3 year old who I fought to have 50/50 custody of who I absolutely adore and would do anything for. I work hard, I’m a firefighter and consider myself to be a socialist. I care about people and I have actively sort to improve the lives of women in my industry in my role as a union leader.

My over arching question and battle I’m having with myself is why should I be held responsible for something which I was effectively tricked into and something I then had no control over?

Help!!!

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 01/05/2019 11:54

You’re an idiot. Do you realise how traumatising an unwanted abortion would be?

Yes. They still have the CHOICE to have one or not. That’s what CHOICE means. It doesn’t mean have one if you don’t want one Confused

Women only go through abortions when they see no other option, people do not use it as a form of contraception. Do you even know what an abortion is?!

Actually it’s a common misconception usually used by pro-lifers that abortion is always traumatic.

DecomposingComposers · 01/05/2019 11:55

Do you even know what an abortion is?!

Thanks, yes I do. I've been part of theatre teams carrying them out.

Yes they are traumatic. Therefore it's up to women to make sure that they don't have an unwanted pregnancy isn't it? The personal responsibility that a PP was insisting on.

Women should double up on contraception or abstain.

Men need to double up or abstain.

Hithere12 · 01/05/2019 11:58

Do you post on threads telling women with 2 children by 2 different men to get sterilised? I really can't believe what I am reading here

Erm if the woman was having kids that she abandoned and refused to look after and financially support I probably would advise her to look into ways to prevent this happening again, but women don’t tend to abandon their kids this is generally a male trend.

This guy has made it clear he doesn’t want more kids!!! Have you not read the OP? He’s refusing to take care of the second and so surely it’s just sensible advice to prevent him from having yet another child he’d abandon?

Hithere12 · 01/05/2019 12:01

Actually it’s a common misconception usually used by pro-lifers that abortion is always traumatic

Actually it is extremely traumatic if someone doesn’t WANT an abortion and is forced to go through with one.

JacquesHammer · 01/05/2019 12:03

Actually it is extremely traumatic if someone doesn’t WANT an abortion and is forced to go through with one

Who is espousing forced abortion? You are the only person who has mentioned that.

It’s a fact that a woman DOES have another choice if she’s pregnant and doesn’t have to be. The key still is that word choice.

DecomposingComposers · 01/05/2019 12:05

Erm if the woman was having kids that she abandoned and refused to look after and financially support I probably would advise her to look into ways to prevent this happening again, but women don’t tend to abandon their kids this is generally a male trend.

Yeah lots of women bring up children in very poor circumstances and aren't able to provide for them. I have never seen a woman told to get sterilised because she has 2 kids by 2 men.

And the OP might not want a child now in the circumstances that he is in. What about in the future though? Maybe he isn't ready to make that decision final and that is his right. You know, to exercise autonomy over his own body.

Original poster
FP22 · 01/05/2019 12:09

@Hithere12 it’s fine to disagree with the material facts but your comments are laughable.
No I haven’t booked a vasectomy and if I am in a committed relationship in the future I would absolutely consider having another child and if that relationship didn’t last I would treat it the same as my first situation.
This second child I no chance at a functioning relationship. I have to give up money I now need more than ever to support both or time with my first born. The mother has moved away.
I think for my own mental health as well, I can’t be a dip in and say hi ever 2 months kind of dad. I am completely hands on with my 3 year old. The fact I would have no say, no decision in that child’s life and no reasonable access would trouble me far more than walking away.
The mother also doesn’t want me to be a part of that child’s life. So I’m now being told by several of you that I should embark on a costly both emotionally and physically, battle for access of a child I never reasonably intended for, with a mother who want me nothing more than my money whilst making parenting sacrifices to the child I have a love. I don’t see how there is any real alternative

OP posts:
hiddenmnetter · 01/05/2019 12:11

The example you give is materially different.

I disagree- there is no material difference between your situation and a person who decides to leave their family and then claim they were tricked or forced or whatever, because the only material fact is the biology.

However adults behave towards one another (and I agree you’ve been treated badly) we expect adults to behave a certain way towards their children, who are after all innocent in this.

The only alternatives are for men to be able to decline interest in a child and either force abortions, or be able to abandon children.

Whether or not you wanted it, by having sex you intended children. Just because you didn’t want that to be the case doesn’t mean it isn’t the case. Sex, as such, contains within itself the intentionality towards babies. It is what sex is for. Using it as entertainment or as fun or whatever else is a separate issue- heterosexual sex is by nature procreative. You can’t avoid it. And by the fact that you accepted that she was on the pill indicates you were aware of this procreative potentiality, which means that you are responsible, sorry.

Hithere12 · 01/05/2019 12:12

Yeah lots of women bring up children in very poor circumstances and aren't able to provide for them. I have never seen a woman told to get sterilised because she has 2 kids by 2 men

There is nothing wrong with having 2 kids by 2 different men? You’re actually comparing that to someone abandoning their child as if they’re the same thing?

Thankfully the vast majority of women don’t even see abandoning their kids as an option unlike around 1 in 5 men.

DecomposingComposers · 01/05/2019 12:18

There is nothing wrong with having 2 kids by 2 different men? You’re actually comparing that to someone abandoning their child as if they’re the same thing?

Nope. I am comparing a woman have 2 kids by 2 different men with a man have 2 kids by 2 different women. In the case of the man you are telling him to have a vasectomy.

The OP hasn't abandoned his children. The first one he has 50/50 contact with. The 2nd one has been removed by the mother. So you cannot say that he has abandoned 2 children.

LetItGoHome · 01/05/2019 12:20

OP. I'm not sure why you would have to see your 1st child less in order to see and have a relationship with the new child. Or work less?
Surely you would see them both at the same time. So for example if you have your son over Thurs, Fri, Sat night. You would have your 2nd child these nights also. So drop off and pick up may be busier. I'm sure between all 3 adults you could work it out. The children deserve to have a relationship to surely?

JacquesHammer · 01/05/2019 12:20

In the case of the man you are telling him to have a vasectomy

If you definitely don’t want any more children, a permanent method of contraception is most sensible whatever the sex. Notwithstanding male sterilisation is far less invasive and remains easier to access (certainly in my PCT).

The 2nd one has been removed by the mother

But after he had already abdicated responsibility

VaggieMight · 01/05/2019 12:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at poster's request.

JacquesHammer · 01/05/2019 12:25

A young man would not be able to have a vasectomy, it is assumed they might change their mind and want children when they're older

In my PCT (of course this is only anecdote) vasectomy is quite “easy” to obtain. Unfortunately for me I’m in my 30s and have been told I can’t be sterilised in case “I might meet a man and change my mind” Confused

Daft isn’t it?

Lam23 · 01/05/2019 12:27

“No I haven’t booked a vasectomy and if I am in a committed relationship in the future I would absolutely consider having another child and if that relationship didn’t last I would treat it the same as my first situation. ”

I literally cannot believe you would treat your second child in this way. Imagine their anger at you as an adult if they found that you treated them as not worth your time and you had TWO other children you saw! Do you still think you’re such a great guy? Really?
This is a human being.

VaggieMight · 01/05/2019 12:32

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at poster's request.

Hithere12 · 01/05/2019 12:33

No I haven’t booked a vasectomy and if I am in a committed relationship in the future I would absolutely consider having another child and if that relationship didn’t last I would treat it the same as my first situation

Well you are treating your imaginary future child must better than your existing one.

OP cars exist and the UK is a relatively tiny country so I’m sure you could see the child if you wanted to. I lived in the Midlands growing up and my Dad would drive up from Southampton every other weekend to see us it’s not impossible like you are making it out to be.

DecomposingComposers · 01/05/2019 12:42

Hithere12

The OP has already says that he works 2 jobs and has his son 50% of the time, how does he have the time or money to drive for hours to see the 2nd child? Where do the extra hours come from?

Plus I have seen it said so many times on here - if the father moves away from the child then it is up to him to do the travelling. In this case the mother has moved away - why isn't her responsibility to do the travelling to facilitate contact?

Tavannach · 01/05/2019 12:46

You're very bitter.
I think you're doing well to acknowledge that you should be paying maintenance. Contact the CMS yourself so that you know you're paying the required fair amount.
Your son will want to know his sibling unless you persuade him otherwise, or conceal the truth from him.
You have issues you need to address with how you see women, otherwise your son is going to adopt the same sorry attitudes and cause just as much pain.
It is the responsibility of the parent who moves away to facilitate contact. I don't know if this applies in s situation where you are not yet paying maintenance.
Even if you do not have physical contact please at the very least send Christmas and birthday cards. Your child will want to know you and will always wonder about you.
A daughter needs a father just as much as a son, if not more so. It is how she learns how to relate to men. As clearly demonstrated by your experience.

hellodarkness · 01/05/2019 12:46

There's a lot of handwringing from pp appalled that op can walk away from a child he doesn't want.

But women planning to have their embryo aborted, or baby given up for adoption, for similar reasons, are usually supported.

Why is it ok for a woman to have an abortion because it's the wrong time for her to have, say, a second child, but not ok for a man to make that same decision. Women can decide they don't want a baby but men can't?

It's not OP's fault this baby is fatherless, it's hers. She lied and manipulated him, moved away, is demanding CM at 4x the expected rate and ultimately chose to get pregnant, and stay pregnant, by a man who had made it clear that he didn't want another child at this time.

RainbowWaffles · 01/05/2019 12:46

I have some sympathy for your position. I think it’s outrageous that women can lie about being on the pill when they aren’t (and contrary to to some assertions on this thread, it does happen) or even worse, fraudulently misrepresent to a man they are they father of a child when they know full well they aren’t. Men do many shitty things too, but women are not all paragons of virtue.

If the downside of being a woman is being left holding the baby (quite literally) then the downside of being a man is having absolutely no say over whether you become a father should contraception fail or not be used (less sympathy where one is deliberately reckless).

Nobody says life is fair. It isn’t. You just have to play the hand you are dealt and in this instance you have a blameless child coming into the world. Whether you wanted it or not, it’s yours and you have to take responsibility. Be the one to make the right choice in the sea of wrong ones. None of this is your child’s fault.

Lam23 · 01/05/2019 12:47

@decomposingcomposers but he has said he would make the time for a subsequent child? Why? Because he loved the mother? It’s just not good enough

TheFastandCurious · 01/05/2019 12:49

It’s not your child’s fault and I think you need to focus on them not the bitterness you feel toward the mum.

You don’t get to walk away from the consequences of your mistake because it’s a living, breathing human who has done nothing wrong.

sashh · 01/05/2019 12:51

Do you post on threads telling women with 2 children by 2 different men to get sterilised? I really can't believe what I am reading here

If a woman camon saying she didn't want a child but didn't want to use condoms |I'm sure people would be recommending sterilisation.

No I haven’t booked a vasectomy and if I am in a committed relationship in the future I would absolutely consider having another child and if that relationship didn’t last I would treat it the same as my first situation.

You are actually considering a third child with a third woman?

You need to consider what impact your actions are going to have on both your existing children.

If you spend so much time with one child then why can't you spend it with both children?

AssassinatedBeauty · 01/05/2019 12:52

@hellodarkness because in the case of an abortion there is no resultant child to support or abandon. In the case of an adoption, the mother is ensuring her child is supported by seeking a formal adoption. Neither of these are in any way similar to a father simply deciding to walk away from a resultant child.

And it is a myth that men don't have a choice about whether to have a child. It's just that those who object about their circumstances are unhappy with when they have to make their choice, because it might stop them from having barrier contraception free sex.