To think parental leave should be 50/50?

[MunaZaldrizoti]

A system of mandatory use it or lose it. No one "gifting" anything to anyone, just equal entitlement...

It would be lovely but some of our OHs don't get paid parental leave. When i get 9 months paid and he none at all it's a no brainer who goes off.

I can find a lot of articles about proportion of women earning more, a lot of them are from the states though where it ranges from 25 -40%

Graduates and newly qualified professional women in general earn more than men in the first few years. It's generally when women get to average child birthing age (late 20s / early 30s) that the pay gap really starts to show.

So when making decisions about paternity leave, I very much doubt it is the case that in most situations the man gets much more than the woman to the point where he csnt take any time off

Also I know some cases where the mans company gives better than statutory eg half pay irrespective of when it's taken, so when the woman's statutory leave runs out at 9 months it makes more sense for the man to take over.

The maths didn’t stack up for us.

First mat leave: pay difference 50k. Dad = smp only, me enhanced package. Financially makes sense for me to be on leave.

Second mat leave: Pay difference= 100k. Same parental leave packages available as before. Financially clear-cut decision.

I think if you have to force men to take greater interest, to make more of an effort to be involved, then fine. Force them.

Pretty sure that "forcing men to be more involved isn't the answer". In my opinion men what want to be involved will be no matter what and those that don't want to be as involved will only come to resent being "forced" to be more involved.

I don't see an issue with the current system. For some it will work for others it won't but to force people into something like this is never going to work and honestly if I was forced to return to work after 6months off with my DD I would have most likely left my job altogether instead of going back after 1 year off!

I suppose that depends on whether you're EBf or not. Men aren't much use at that and it took me all day to pump half a bottle of milk. Plus I needed to physically recover from the birth. Plus, I hate to say it but a lot of men just aren't particularly caring or tuned in to their kids' needs. Granted some mothers aren't either but centuries of sex stereotyping plus hormones have increased the likelihood that they will be. Have to deal with the world as it is and all that.

Plus, I hate to say it but a lot of men just aren't particularly caring or tuned in to their kids' needs.

You say that like it's just one of those things you accept in a partner, like leaving the odd dirty cup in the sink. If I'd suspected that DH wasn't caring before we had DS then I wouldn't have had a baby with him, and if I'd found out that he couldn't be bothered with him after he arrived then I'd have been devastated and, unless I thought DH was v depressed or similar, I'd have left. I don't understand why any one would think it was just ok and normal for the father of a child not to be fit to look after that child.

Unless we start getting 2yrs parental leave then no thank you!! I couldn't breastfeed exclusively and be back at work after 4.5months of leave!! Nonsense. The system allows those who can share to share, what is the issue?
Also mat leave is not 'parental leave' - mat leave is also there to recover from the pregnancy and birth and it can genuinely take a good few months sometimes.

@AmIRightOrAMeringue I should imagine it would reduce breastfeeding rates as men don’t have breasts with which to feed a baby 🤔

You can only share maternity leave after the minimum 12 week period usually so it makes sense. A lot of high earning women in my industry do that while still working from home full time for an additional 2-3 months afterwards.

I had to return to work at 10 months because my husband had been finished at work due to MS. I was still having treatment for the mental & physical injuries I received during the pregnancy & birth. I had no choice but to return to work, before my husband became ill the plan had been for me to stay at home full time as my husband worked shifts & had time at home during the week, plus his shift pattern meant that I couldn't work a regular pattern at work without childcare that we couldn't afford. It took almost 18 months for me to be at the stage that I didn't have regular sessions of counselling, physiotherapy & consultants appointments, plus I had to learn the physiotherapy & exercise routines to help get my husband walking again & any time he was having a relapse, I had to take time off to care for him & DS.

Like many other posters, I think that entitlement to paid paternity leave should certainly be longer. Even if it were 4 weeks that would make a huge difference. But that shouldn’t come at the expense of women’s rights.

And don’t minimise birth injuries. They’re far, far more common than you think, and can be incredibly debilitating.

You can only share maternity leave after the minimum 12 week period usually so it makes sense. A lot of high earning women in my industry do that while still working from home full time for an additional 2-3 months afterwards.

Not true. The minimum maternity leave is only 2 weeks (4 if you work in a factory). Anything after that can be shared.

@FormerlyFrikadela01 - The 2 week period you mentioned is the minimum the mum has to take. Most companies, however, will only let you share your maternity leave after the 12 week point. Also ordinary mat leave is 26 weeks. That’s the bare minimum you will get if you have met your minimum service requirements

*DS’s dad would have hated taking the leave

I think that’s really sad that a parent would hate to be the primary carer for their own child.*

There are many women on MN who don't enjoy maternity leave so I think it's fine for men not to enjoy it either.

We chose not to share the leave. Both my children were breastfed bottle refusers. I also enjoyed baby groups and get togethers where my husband is really shy and introverted so he wouldn't enjoy them so much.

Now we're both back at work with two children he parents equally at the weekends. I tend to do the group activities while he does the park trips, bike rides etc. Horses for courses and all that.

In Iceland they have three months non transferable leave for both parents (exceptions are given if there is only one patent or the second parent is incapacitated)

www.island.is/en/family/having_a_baby/maternity_paternity_leave_and_parental_leave/

I think there is additional transferable time as well.

I think it would be good to have some additional non transferable time for both parents and some transferable time. Say three months each then a further nine months that you could split. Also I think the leave should be able to be taken concurrently so perhaps mum and dad take the first three months off together and the one person stays at home for the following nine months for example.

I had c-sections with both of my children and complications afterwards with both so my recovery wasn't straightforward. Couldn't even drive for 3 months. I also breastfed for about a year. First 5-6 mths a lot of sleep deprivation with baby waking up about 2- 3 times during the night to feed. If I had shared parental leave 50/50, I would only have experienced the harder months and not really get myself back on track.

I think both parents should get a years leave. Then it’s a total no brainer to take it.

@laurG

Yes, but earning at least half pay for the entire year. And they should be able to keep their job open for two years without going back in that time.

Can we please stop pretending that looking after the children we've made is not a valid and valuable use of women's time.

Who is saying that @motherofdinosaurs?

It's not that simple:

1. I had every serious pregnancy complication known to (wo)man and was in no way fit to return to work before 1 year post-birth. By post 1 year I was able to cope with a limited and adjusted workload. I was still on crutches, badly undernourished and despite transfusions, quite anaemic at 6 months.

1. DH often earns 5X my PT salary, so we couldn't afford to live off my salary for 6 months.

However I would like to see more parental leave splitting, and more fully paid leave for dads (not just the state pay) would make this feasible. And as a PP says, it would be good for employment issues in that men would be seen as almost as 'high risk' as women when it came to employing someone who might take 6 months off.

@motherofdinosaurs

It’s the opposite I think. Having a parent at home with a young child is extremely valuable for all involved. It’s society that devalues it by seeing parental leave as a burden. Employers also see women ‘of a certain Age’ as liabilities and punish them through lower pay regardless if the want /have/don’t have kids. Until men carry some of this things won’t change. Why should I get paid less to do the same job as a male colleague because I have I have a womb?

Having kids is wonderful and we need to value it. Give both partners (or indeed a single person) a longer entitlement. You could have a year to breastfeed and recover and then your partner could take up to another year. It would really help financially too as you could save a years childcare.

Yeah because my husband took a long time to recover from MY c section 🙄

@laurG

This is a lovely theory but how would it work in practice?

Are you saying that you would want women and men to be paid while they’re taking time off? I’m all for forward thinking and progressiveness but there has to be a dose of reality. Employers aren’t charities.

Employers can claim back 92% of smp at the moment. More if they qualify for small business relief. Our maternity pay is pretty crap compared to other countries. In Germany you get over 60% of your wage for a year. This would have given me 150% more maternity pay. This can be extended to 14 months if both partners take leave. In Sweden you get 80% of your pay for a year. In Norway you get 35 weeks at full pay or 45 weeks at 85%. This is because these countries (governments and employers) VALUE parents. So in other places this is REALITY. Why can’t it be here? I live in London and it was bloody hard living on smp. We were lucky as we had the resources to save in advance. It’s a joke to think that £140 a week is enough here.