To think parental leave should be 50/50?

[MunaZaldrizoti]

A system of mandatory use it or lose it. No one "gifting" anything to anyone, just equal entitlement...

I find it so weird that on MN mat leave and caring for a baby is the hardest thing in the world, way harder than being a WOHP ('he gets to sit and drink coffee at work!'), absolutely relentless - unless it's suggested that men do some of it, at which point it becomes a lovely little break that women get as a special reward for giving birth.

I disagree OP. I had a traumatic birth, needed 6months before I could walk properly again after a broken pelvis and other complications. I also breastfed until 14months, not unusual.

I am really in favour of men having extended paid paternity leave that is specific to dads but not ever at the expense of maternity leave. If anything I would like to see us move increasingly to longer paid maternity leave so women can afford to be there for their first steps etc.

I think you should each have a decent entitlement on a use it or lose it but that the partner’s leave should be new and extra and not cutting into the mums leave as she is also recovering from birth and potentially surgery and also breastfeeding is important to some people. I wouldn’t want 50:50 to mean women who want 12 months off being rush back to work as partner wants their fair share - especially as the later months are better and more aside than the early months.

As it happened both my DC were still breastfeeding twice a day in the day at 10 months and I would have hated having to give that up early to go back to work. Expressing wouldn't have felt worth the hassle and DC2 never took a bottle anyway.

Why would you have to give that up though? If it is only twice a day you can breastfeeding first thing in the morning and last thing at night. That is what I did anybody else did before extended maternity leave.

@MunaZaldrizoti
Another thread bashing women on Mumsnet.
I work with families and in reality the small amount of men who are stay at home parents still expect wife to come home and do homework.
Facts
Mothers are the only person who can breastfeed (which is recommend by UNICEF, NHS, WHO)
Some mothers suffer with birth injuries whilst you make light of, it’s not a cut and paste situation.
It’s still a reality that in most married couples Husbands earn more.
Most men don’t take up extended paternity leave because they don’t want to.
New mothers are flooded with Oxytocin which is a hormone which helps bonding.
I’m not sure why equality means taking away hard fort for issues from mothers.

I'm not sure op. I do think employers should look at doing enhanced pay for men taking leave though, it works balance it out a bit

“The key issue is not whether dad's take up shared leave (most mums don't want them to), it's the fact that women find it difficult to re-enter the workplace after they gave a baby, because they can't / don't want to necessarily work full time.”

This is so true.

For those of us who have chosen to leave paid work while we have say two or three tiny children (millions of us!) opportunities to retrain or re-enter the workplace at the same level rather than suddenly throwing away your postgraduate degree to be a dinner lady (nothing wrong with dinner ladies but not what I dream of!) because it fits in with school/is all you can get after a break.

*I find it so weird that on MN mat leave and caring for a baby is the hardest thing in the world, way harder than being a WOHP ('he gets to sit and drink coffee at work!'), absolutely relentless - unless it's suggested that men do some of it, at which point it becomes a lovely little break that women get as a special reward for giving birth.8

I suspect that is because not everyone is the same on MN. Some found maternity leave harder than work and would have been very happy to go back in the knowledge that DH was looking after the DC (e.g. me). I had to go back at six months anyway as did everyone and I would have been extremely happy if rather than using childcare, DH could have stayed at home.

I find it so weird that on MN mat leave and caring for a baby is the hardest thing in the world, way harder than being a WOHP ('he gets to sit and drink coffee at work!'), absolutely relentless - unless it's suggested that men do some of it, at which point it becomes a lovely little break that women get as a special reward for giving birth.

I suspect that is because not everyone is the same on MN. Some found maternity leave harder than work and would have been very happy to go back in the knowledge that DH was looking after the DC (e.g. me). I had to go back at six months anyway as did everyone and I would have been extremely happy if rather than using childcare, DH could have stayed at home.

@PicsInRed
I’m tired of “Mumsnet” becoming a site that constantly bashes women and particularly women who are poor or of colour.😕

Houseonahill

Of my small sample of friends no one took shared leave because the woman WANTED to stay at home with the baby, she didn't want to share her maternity leave. I hate this attitude that women that don't share leave are doing a disservice to womankind. Stop trying to take away women's choice because it's not the choice you would make

I disagree, I think saying to men 'no I'm not sharing any of MY leave with you - not even a month at the wnd, when I'm fully healed and when the baby can go 7 hours without breastfeeding, because I gave birth' is a disservice to woman kind. It means that women are seen as the default parent, the ones that will always take time off when the child is ill and needs to be at home, it means that men aren't given the chance to be primary carers, and without doing that in practice its difficult for anyone to fully get the organisation involved in getting kids ready in the morning etc etc -all thr mental load stuff that makes up so many posts in AIBU because women end up being expected to do that because they're the primary carer and have always been. It means women are seen as the ultimate ones in charge of making decisions about the kids - as it doesn't sound like a decision they have made together about how to share the parental leave, it sounds like the leave still belongs to the woman because everything child related belongs to the woman. Its saying that its accepted womens careers are affected by having kids but mens aren't.

If that's what individuals want to do that's fine. But I do find it surprising and frustrating people cant see that these decisions and assumptions that childcare is for women (excepting time for birth recovery and limitations for breastfeeding), feeds into every day discrimination against women at work. I just think the same women who refuse to even discuss giving up any of 'their' leave will be thr same ones on aibu in a few years posting that they are exhausted as their partner does none of the grunt work with the kids and doesn't know where their uniform is kept or what they need in their lunch box and they want to work but cant because their partner has taken a job incompatible with nursery pickups etc.

A sweeping generalisation I know, but if i wasnt allowed to spend even a few weeks off work with my baby by my partner I think I'd feel pretty resentful

Also, for posters talking about "needing to heal", don't most episiotomies heal within 6 odd weeks?

It's not just about the stitches OP. It's about the fact that pregnancy takes its toll on your body, it's exhausting just to have your body change so much and carry around a growing baby. Then you have to give birth which is even harsher on your body.

Then you've got breastfeeding (if you choose to) which can be painful itself. Then you've got months of nightfeeds and the exhaustion that brings.

So no, it's not 'just 6 weeks' to heal, because it's not just stitches you're recovering from. And no, I would definitely not have wanted to share my maternity leave.

I do think men should be given longer off, if they want it off and it works for their family financially.

Also, how old are you OP? You say that it might encourage women if your generation to do the 'whole baby thing'. I'm late 20s, so guessing I'm the same generation as you. I know plenty of women who have and want children, and they're mostly all have a degree and promising careers.

I think so many holes 🕳 n this . I left my abusive husband when Ds was10 months old , also for various reasons wasn’t allowed to be unsupervised with my Ds from 2 months.

Some people have to do what is best financially . Simply it isn’t a luxury choice to make. It is more likely dad earns more that pay cut because dad is off may mean bills can’t be paid.

The other part unless early maternity leave usually starts before the baby is born so how is that 50/50?

*@

@Sexnotgender

How about men fight for their own rights to legally enshrined entitlements to paid time off for infant care without taking away from that which women have fought for and won?

This with bells on!
Yes this!!

It is more likely dad earns more that pay cut because dad is off may mean bills can’t be paid.

Why should "dad" be likely to be paid more? Women aren't less qualified or inferior in any way. Considering much of the gender pay gap occurs after children have children it is even more reason to encourage paternity leave.

completely disagree. should be up to the couple...

1. there are financial implications. often, sadly men still earn more and having the dad taking parental leave might have serious implications - not every family can afford this. are you suggesting that families that cannot afford the father's parental leave should be penalised by having only 6 months parental leave?

2. you know that women have to recover from labour? Now, for some it is a breeze, but for others it is a long hard road.
   there is also the MH side. Postnatal depression and such

3. breastfeeding. I fully breastfed my disabled DD1 until 11 months as she would not have taken solids, not would she take the bottle either. Should she have starved?

I could go on and on...

@AmIRightOrAMeringue
Where do you get your evidence that a third of women are higher earners.
It’s completely untrue.

Fuck me, OP I can't believe you think women are totally back to normal after a C section in 6 weeks

Newsflash I didn't physically heal (as in closed wound) for 5 months. Never mind internally or psychologically.

Why dad earns more us the gender pay gap.

Why would you have to give that up though? If it is only twice a day you can breastfeeding first thing in the morning and last thing at night. That is what I did anybody else did before extended maternity leave.

Sorry, that was in addition to first and last thing! I didn't count those as "in the day" because I was referring to working hours. I wasn't clear. So at 10 months I was still feeding roughly 07.00, 10.30, 15.00 and 19.00. 10.30 went around 11 months and 15.00 around 12 months.

Entirely my choice but not one I'd have wanted to give up to return to work earlier than planned.

*Fuck me, OP I can't believe you think women are totally back to normal after a C section in 6 weeks shock

Newsflash I didn't physically heal (as in closed wound) for 5 months. Never mind internally or psychologically.*

Yep, OP sadly your expectations are best case. I literally couldn’t walk for 6months, couldn’t pick up my baby from the floor.
Birth injuries aren’t spoken about very much publicly but are incredibly disabling and often last far, far longer than is assumed. I will have some problems for the rest of my life but I wasn’t able to be reasonably functioning until I was 1year post partum.
Please don’t minimise this as some extreme, so rare we don’t count thing. It’s incredibly infuriating.

women earning more, about 25% according to these articles. What's scary is how negatively it's seen from both the nale and female side.

@Blahdeblahbahhhhh
We agree on this thread!

“ the man is the higher earner, people could save beforehand or make sure they are on an equal footing wage wise if they don't want to take a financial hit on maternity leave.”

Because this would be so easy...